584,812 active members*
5,534 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Page 3 of 24 1234513
Results 41 to 60 of 461
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Motor shielding?

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post
    I really like that last solution.(pictures with purple wire.) I can definitely come up with something like that and attach to the steel CNC frame. Or is it spindle? I know , or at least want, the frame grounded as well with a separate grounding wire placed elsewhere. The VFD case attachment should not be an issue as I think I may have to fabricate a metal box so I have some control of how it happens in there.

    Thanks.
    Any type of 360 Degree clip like this will work for you, just a tight fit around the Shield, these are available for commercial use, You don't need another Ground wire, you have a good Grounding at your spindle, you just need it Grounded at the VFD Drive end, and the Main input power Ground, there should be only ( 1 ) main Ground Point ( Star Ground ) this can be a Post or a Ground Rail in your cabinet
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shield Clamp-3.PNG  
    Mactec54

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Platform Leveling

    Seems I should have done this some time ago but I finally placed the platform in it's final location and used the adjustable feet to lift it off the wheels.
    There was a gap above the platform in the front left corner of the frame that was at least a quarter inch. When I leveled the platform all four comers were sitting tight against the frame.
    At first I thought that was good but that means the frame has been flexing or stressed for a month or so. Hopefully I got away with that.

    You can see that the frame is really only sitting on the very corner of the platform. Also the mounting holes only had air under them. Made the frame a bit too large.

    Attachment 400082


    I placed two supports on each corner. So there is now about a foot and a half of wood supporting both sides of the frame at each corner.

    Attachment 400084

    This not only added support but because the wood was tight up against the frame I could tighten the lag screws without racking / warping the frame.

    Attachment 400088

    Before, during testing I could hear what sounded like the frame racking when bringing the gantry forward. In hindsight it's obvious what was happening. With gaps on the corners and all.
    With it leveled and corner braces installed it's pretty smooth now.
    Hopefully I can start squaring that gantry soon. Today I think I will get back to wiring so that I can bench test the VFD/Spindle.

    Thanks.
    Jack.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    729

    Re: Platform Leveling

    Now you can rest easy that the frame and stand are secure, Jack. Mine hasn't budged in the 18 months or so it's been operational but I do check on it once in a while to make certain screws are tight and nothing has moved. Looking forward to the next step. How will you square the gantry - what procedure?

    David
    David
    Romans 3:23
    Etsy shop opened 12/1/17 - CurlyWoodShop

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Now you can rest easy that the frame and stand are secure, Jack. Mine hasn't budged in the 18 months or so it's been operational but I do check on it once in a while to make certain screws are tight and nothing has moved. Looking forward to the next step. How will you square the gantry - what procedure?

    David
    Good question,
    Originally I was going to try the loosen bolts/home trick mentioned Here.
    But I don't see how that tells me the gantry is square.

    I like the flip square solution Here.
    Because I understand it. My desktop CNC had this issue but it was not adjustable. Maybe do both?

    Open for suggestions.
    I'll probably make a video of the process so I would like to pass along good information.

    Once it's square I understand to adjust the right prox sensor. Then turn on the two sensor Y axis homing in Mach3. I have it homing only on the left sensor at the moment.

    BTW: As for the platform, you were right. I need more cross bracing when that gantry is flying back and forth.


    Thanks.
    Jack.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    My machine is all welded frame and gantry. It sets level on the factory stand but I can only get one bolt in the pre-drilled holds. I put undersized bolts in the holes to Index it. My machine is not level. close, but not on. I used a dial indicator to check a couple of cross supports and for the tramming and in spite of shipping and lack of level it seems to be just fine. I think the machine is fine not bolted down to anything. When someday my 5x8 sheet of MDF comes in, and when the metric machine bolts come in, the proof will be when I do the initial surfacing.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    236

    Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post
    Good question,
    Originally I was going to try the loosen bolts/home trick mentioned Here.
    But I don't see how that tells me the gantry is square.

    I like the flip square solution Here.
    Because I understand it. My desktop CNC had this issue but it was not adjustable. Maybe do both?

    Open for suggestions.
    I'll probably make a video of the process so I would like to pass along good information.

    Once it's square I understand to adjust the right prox sensor. Then turn on the two sensor Y axis homing in Mach3. I have it homing only on the left sensor at the moment.

    BTW: As for the platform, you were right. I need more cross bracing when that gantry is flying back and forth.


    Thanks.
    Jack.
    FWIW, I found that the gantry on my 4x2 Saturn (1?) was way too stiff to use a sensor on each side rail to square up the gantry every time you home it. I tried, but when one motor hit its sensor the other one kept going and ended up skipping teeth on the rack. The adjustment springs were pretty tight, and the sensors were adjusted to trigger pretty close to the same time. The gantry was only out of square by about 0.030". I ended up loosening the bolts that hold the gantry and trying to square it up by trial and error.

    I tested square by having the system drill 4 0.25" holes at 4 corners of a square. I put dowel pins in each hole then used a framing square to measure the diagonals. One pin is pushed into the inside corner of the framing square and the other pin rests along the inside edge. If you make the diagonal distance on the outside of the pins just a little bit shorter than the inside length of the framing square (usually 22 inches), you can use a caliper to measure the difference between the diagonal lengths. Adjust until they are equal, or within acceptable tolerance. I think I managed to get to about 0.010" differences on the diagonals after 4-5 tries.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully. You will need to tighten the gantry right after you home then test the square and iterate, but with a few careful calculations, you can probably get it dialed in in 2-3 attempts.

    -Robert

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    621

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Where did you get the heat sinks if I may ask?

    Thanks,
    Dan

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post
    FWIW, I found that the gantry on my 4x2 Saturn (1?) was way too stiff to use a sensor on each side rail to square up the gantry every time you home it. I tried, but when one motor hit its sensor the other one kept going and ended up skipping teeth on the rack. The adjustment springs were pretty tight, and the sensors were adjusted to trigger pretty close to the same time. The gantry was only out of square by about 0.030". I ended up loosening the bolts that hold the gantry and trying to square it up by trial and error.

    I tested square by having the system drill 4 0.25" holes at 4 corners of a square. I put dowel pins in each hole then used a framing square to measure the diagonals. One pin is pushed into the inside corner of the framing square and the other pin rests along the inside edge. If you make the diagonal distance on the outside of the pins just a little bit shorter than the inside length of the framing square (usually 22 inches), you can use a caliper to measure the difference between the diagonal lengths. Adjust until they are equal, or within acceptable tolerance. I think I managed to get to about 0.010" differences on the diagonals after 4-5 tries.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully. You will need to tighten the gantry right after you home then test the square and iterate, but with a few careful calculations, you can probably get it dialed in in 2-3 attempts.

    -Robert
    Now there is some useful information. Thanks Robert. I'm getting very close to where squaring the gantry will be possible.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully
    I've heard that before. The part I don't understand is how adjusting the sensors helps to make the gantry square. I definitely plan to do that once I know it is square. Then turn on the dual sensor Y axis homing.
    That way it will self square each time I home it.

    Thanks.
    Jack.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    The part I don't understand is how adjusting the sensors helps to make the gantry square.
    Say one sensor sticks out 1" farther than the other. When you home the gantry, one side will move 1" farther than the other. To get it square, you move the sensor.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Where did you get the heat sinks if I may ask?
    Well, I got those from a heatsink scrap bin at the place I used to work at.
    Mostly point of sale (POS) machine heatsinks. I had to drill and tap four holes in these to attached the Gecko drives.

    Some POS heatsinks are like a work of art because they are custom mfg'ed for each model. Just search around for used POS, Surepos or ThinkCentre heatsinks.
    They can be had pretty cheap.

    Thanks.
    Jack

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Say one sensor sticks out 1" farther than the other. When you home the gantry, one side will move 1" farther than the other. To get it square, you move the sensor.
    Hi Gerry. Two things.
    1- Can I assume those two sensor blocks are exactly aligned with each other?
    2- I have been homing to the right back of the machine. Just noticed there is only one side (left) with a block on it back there!! The front of the machine has a block on each side.
    Don't tell me my gantry is on backwards! That would be an issue at this point to say the least.

    Thanks.

    Edit. that can't be right. The rack and pinion drives would not work if that was the case. ??

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    1) Never assume.

    2) I can't answer that, as I'm not familiar with the layout of that machine.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Mine is NEMA 34 but it Homes left front which is pretty much standard. My indexing blocks can not be adjusted as mounted. The Proximity switches are mounted on top of the Gantry. Spring tension, do not get too tight. Mine is about 1 1/16 inch from the top of the black bracket to the top of the washer on top of the spring.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RIGHT.jpg   LEFT.jpg  
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Looking at those pics, it looks like the sensor position can NOT be adjusted?
    Sorry, I thought that they were setup like the CNCRP machines.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    251

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Mine is NEMA 34 but it Homes left front which is pretty much standard. My indexing blocks can not be adjusted as mounted. The Proximity switches are mounted on top of the Gantry. Spring tension, do not get too tight. Mine is about 1 1/16 inch from the top of the black bracket to the top of the washer on top of the spring.
    My machine does have the two in the front of the machine. I'm just homing off my Y limit sensor I guess. Will look into changing that. I know Mach3 is set for just the one Y sensor at the moment.

    Thanks.
    Jack

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Looking at those pics, it looks like the sensor position can NOT be adjusted?
    Sorry, I thought that they were setup like the CNCRP machines.
    No worries fancy pants.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    The only adjustment on the sensor is up and down. It picks up the block from the side. The block could be adjusted IF it was mounted correctly.. That would involve drilling and tapping another hole for the flat head allen screw. Frankly I do not know if its Metric or Imperial, I have taps for both but right not I do not need to adjust. My gantry as near as I can tell is within .020 or so square using the end plates as reference. I was waiting until my spoil board to come in and I would cut a large rectangle with a very light cut and check.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    236

    Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post

    I've heard that before. The part I don't understand is how adjusting the sensors helps to make the gantry square. I definitely plan to do that once I know it is square. Then turn on the dual sensor Y axis homing.
    That way it will self square each time I home it.
    This requires that you adjust the sensors very carefully so that they both turn on at the same time when the gantry is square. I haven't done this, so I'm not sure if this would work, but here is how I would approach it:

    1) Home the gantry to one sensor (let's call this the primary side).
    2) Adjust the secondary sensor so that it just barely turns on when the gantry is homed to the primary. In theory, this will have both sensors turn on at about the same time.
    3) Make sure that your system is calibrated correctly (i.e. linear moves only in X, Y, and Z are accurate)
    4) Run a program where you can cut a square or rectangle and measure the diagonals. (or use my pin method from above).
    5) Use you're measurements to create an accurate sketch in your favorite CAD program, representing your slightly not square rectangle.
    6) Use this sketch to figure out the linear distance that you need to adjust your gantry. Remember that the rectangle you cut is smaller than the distance between your sensors, so you will need to take that into account.
    7) Your sensors will be threaded on a consistent pitch (usually 1 mm for the sensors Fineline provides). This means that the sensor will move by 1 mm (0.03937 inches) for every turn on the nut. If you mark one flat on one of the nuts and rotate it proportionally (e.g. 1/2 turn of the nut is 0.5mm), you can move the sensor in a very controlled manner, adjusting it by a few thousandths of an inch if needed. Be sure to snug up the sensor carefully each time you adjust it, making sure that you don't rotate it or the nut you just adjusted.
    8) Adjust the secondary sensor, loosen the gantry, leaving one screw on each side slightly snug, then re-home the gantry. Alternately, you can loosen all the screws, but you need to make sure that you push both sides of the gantry in the same direction (e.g. towards the front of the machine) when you tighten everything up each time. The play in the holes is enough to allow the gantry to be out of square. All of this is to try to be as consistent as possible in your adjustments so that you aren't chasing square back and forth forever.
    9) Machine another test rectangle, measure and repeat. If you calculate the adjustment needed correctly, and adjust carefully, you should only need a few iterations to get the diagonals pretty close. In your CAD model you can figure out how close your diagonals need to be to each other to have the gantry square to your desired accuracy. The first iteration might make things worse, depending on how well you adjusted the secondary sensor the first time and how the gantry was biases on its holes, but after that, it should get better each iteration.

    Once you have the gantry square, you can turn off the secondary sensor, but I would leave it in place and don't change the adjustment. If the gantry ever goes out of square, you just have to loosen the bolts, re-home, tighten and check for square. It should be pretty close.

    Again, I haven't tried this, so if anyone else has an easier or more efficient method, I'd love to hear about it. I'm an engineer, so I tend to take an analytical approach. The machinists I know often have some pretty cool techniques that they have learned/developed that are way faster and more accurate than what I come up with. On my machine, I basically kept nudging it as carefully as I could until it was close. It took alot of tries, and I eventually gave up trying to make it better.

    -Robert

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Or make your rectangle cut on the board, lay a square on it see which sensor Block you need to move and do it. But I do not think that will work with the welded gantry unless you unbolt from the linear bearing block. Yes you need both the Y and Slave (B) sensor in operation in case something goes wrong.
    See the pictures I posted above for why you can not adjust the sensor.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BLOCK.jpg  
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    841

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    See my post #19 in David Falkner's "Calibration Question" thread for a discussion of an alternate method for determining whether your gantry is perpendicular to the Y axis, and if it's out, quantifying exactly how much adjustment is needed. It's called the 5 Cut Method. It is a bit time consuming, but works better than any other method I've found. On the Saturn 2, you'll have to be able to adjust the sensor blocks. You'll also need to loosen the gantry and move it the amount necessary to correct the error. I can say from experience that having to loosen both sides of the gantry to adjust it makes the whole process very fussy. Leaving one bolt snug as a pivot point helps but it's not perfect when trying to achieve movements in the thousands of an inch range. Having a very stiff machine is both a blessing and curse. It's great for cutting, but a bear for adjusting making adjustments. With extrusion-based machines, forcing the gantry into square works OK. Not so much for machines with linear rails where binding can be a problem.

    Gary

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    I have no plans of incorporating that method. I am making money when my machine is running and .030 inch in 48 inches is all I need. If I wanted or needed milling machine accuracy I would buy one.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

Page 3 of 24 1234513

Similar Threads

  1. Saturn I -- NEMA 34 install help requested
    By Redcedar in forum FineLine Automation
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-15-2018, 11:32 PM
  2. Saturn I -- NEMA 34 install help requested
    By Redcedar in forum FineLine Automation
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-14-2018, 12:38 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-09-2018, 07:05 AM
  4. Saturn 4x4 build with Nema 34 hybrid motors and ESS
    By yachtlover in forum FineLine Automation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-15-2018, 10:39 PM
  5. New Saturn 2 4 x 4 CNCRP Nema 34 build
    By micknm in forum FineLine Automation
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-19-2017, 10:25 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •