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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    My previous CNC was a CNCPRP Pro v-con system. It was ok for small jobs but not rigid enough for serious 3D carving. I was also having problems with achieving accuracy +/- 0.005 for certain parts. I was told to upgrade to profile linear rails to improve on its accuracy. It was quite a bit of money upgrading all 3 axis. I'm also looking for a larger machine to take on 4x8 jobs. I decided to sale the old system instead of upgrading.

    I sold the old system and I'm building a second one, largely follow CNCRP Pro design, 4x9 LVL base and 40 series extrusion with some steel reinforcement. The overall size is about 62" x 120". I'm planing on using HGH25 rails for both X & Y axis, CNCRP Pro rack and pinion drives, and Clearpath servo. Controller will be UC300 + UB1. For Z, stock Z axis from CNCRP combined with HSD 1kw spindle (for now) and Delta 2.2KW VFD.

    The aprons on the base are 14" wide and 1-5/8" thick. They rest on 1/2" rabbets on each leg and will be glued to the leg with through mortise/tenon reinforcement using Festool 12mm dominos.





    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails frame-top.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Gluing up the leg assembly. Each leg is 5.5" wide x 3.25" thick x 32" long. The stretchers connected to the legs via glue and 2 x 12mm dominos/ea. Each pair of legs have both top and bottom stretchers

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gluing up leg.jpg  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Previously, I cut some aluminum parts on the old cnc for the new one

    Cutting 3/4 aluminum gantry riser plate

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Cool. Not too different from what I've been trying to build for the last 5 years. (no time).
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    I plan to use 3/8" thick x 3" wide A36 steel flat bar to connect between the LVL frame and the aluminum extrusion. The steel bar would be epoxied to the wood frame. Would some kind of fastener necessary? The aluminum extrusion rails will be bolted down, through the epoxy and the steel bar, into the wood frame. The highlighted area (darker blue) will be leveled with precision cast epoxy.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    I managed to joint the legs together today and put on the levelers. The leg levelers are just hockey pucks with 3/8" hardware. The screwed in plates were from eBay, about $2/ea.



    The stretchers were jointed to the legs with 12mm dominos, making them super rigid.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails leg-joint-complete.jpg  

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    I ordered the HGR25 rails and blocks from Motion Constrained website. Total come to about $1400 for 2 118" rail and 2 62" rails. The 25mm rails are pretty beefy.

    The aluminum extrusion cost would be around $1500 including freight shipping, That includes 2x120" 40-4012 rails, 8x1250mm 40-4080 rails counterbored for fasteners, a.1600mm x 8016, 2 x 240mm 8080.

    3 x R&P drives, gear racks, and Z axis will come at around $1700.

    Aluminum for gantry risers and other misc part will run around $250. Fasteners will run another $150.

    The above costs include shipping. Shipping is about 10% of the overall cost.

    So you don't really save much money DIY vs using the kit from CNCRP people. However, you do get beefier linear rails and slightly longer rig (120" vs 112"). I needed the extra length to work on edge of boards.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    I plan to use 3/8" thick x 3" wide A36 steel flat bar to connect between the LVL frame and the aluminum extrusion. The steel bar would be epoxied to the wood frame. Would some kind of fastener necessary?
    I would screw them down, with a lot of screws, in addition to the epoxy. To make sure they never move with changes in temperature and humidity.

    I's consider pouring the epoxy right on the wood. Saves a lot of time and work. The only problem is that you'll need to seal the wood well, or the epoxy will soak in.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Another problem with pouring the epoxy directly on the wood is due to the width of the apron, the area wont be very flat due to meniscus effect.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    It'll be the same on the steel, won't it?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    The width of the extrusion is 40mm or about 1-9/16. The width of the apron is about 1-5/8. So if I build a channel for the epoxy, the side walls would be right in the area where the extrusion sit. Whereas, the width of the 3/8" steel bar is 3", so there is enough room for the rail to be away from the wall. How thick does the epoxy need to be?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    This is a close up of the stretcher to leg joint. The two domino secure the stretcher to the legs along with glue on the back side. The setup results in an extremely rigid connection which prevents racking. Even without the side aprons, the whole frame now feel more solid than my previous 8020 frame.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails stretcher-to-leg-joint.jpg  

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    For Z axis, I want to get 0.25G accel and 400IPM rapid. The main reason is for it to be more efficient at 3D carving. The Z ball screw is 1610. I already had this Clearpath motor CPM-SDSK-3432S-RLN and planning to use it for the Z. The Z axis total weight is about 55lb max, probably about 46lb with the HSD 1kw spindle. This motor is way over sized for the Z. At 400IPM, it is running just over 1000RPM and has about 2.85N.m of constant torque. 1000RPM is just 10% shy of the motor 1140RPM max speed. The spreadsheet that I had calculate the required torque at 400IPM to 1.4N.m (with 200% safety factor). My question is: do I need to bother with a counter-balance for the Z? It seems the motor has 4x the torque to move it at 400IPM and 0.25G accel. I've never has a Z moving/accel this fast. Is there anything else I should be concerned about?

    The HSD spindle is only 1kw. It has an ER20 collet. However, looking at the name plate, it is pulling 5.5A at S1 and 7.2A at S6 (40%), which is more typical of CNC router. I've done some testing and the spindle actually pull the max amp at 18k rpm. Going past 18k rpm actually causing it to consume a little less. Assuming conservative rating from HSD, it seems this guy could be pulling as much A as some of the Chinese 2.2kw spindle. I'm thinking the spindle may be undersized for this machine but I hope not. For those who had some experience with HSD 1kw, what kind of speed/DOC can you expect in MDF?




    Here are my gantry risers.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gantry-risers.jpg  

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    I'm working on getting the aprons for assembly. A track saw is very convenience for cutting down long boards. The aprons are 14"x120". I've also picked up the steel bars. They should add about 200lb to the structure. I ended up getting 1/4" thick instead of 3/8 flat bar. I've been thinking about how to glue steel flat bars to the LVL frame. Initially, I thought epoxy would be best. However, I'm leaning toward using polyurethane glue (i.e. Gorilla glue). It's strong and has some give to better deal with machine vibration. It can also fill some small gaps.



    Here I am testing the complete frame with the aprons on. Having both aprons on really stiffen the frame up.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails apron assembly.jpg  

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Epoxy would be far superior to Gorilla glue, imo. They make thickeners for gap filling. You first brush on thin epoxy, and allow it to soak in a bit, then add the thickened epoxy.

    See pages 32-33 of this manual. https://www.westsystem.com/wp-conten...anual-2015.pdf

    Lots of excellent info on working with epoxy.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    It took a while but the LVL is complete and ready for painting. The frame design was modeled after a tried and true woodworker Nicholson bench. I'm very pleased with how it turned out so far. The aprons were fastened into each leg with 3 dominos, glue, and 4 x 3/8" hex bolts. The bolts were just there to insure the aprons never got push out but it's the dominos that provide the rigidity

    I also got the 80/20 stuffs in. I ended up getting everything from their garage sale on ebay and saved about $500. However, the long side rails won't be continuous because they don't sell anything over 2440mm direct. You have to buy via one of their dealers and pay for freight shipment. The dealer I was working with charge retail pricing + 3% CC fee and he won't take any other type of payment. I also have to cut my own rails to size, and counter-bore them. Fair enough.




    Apron to leg joint with dominos, the bolts were taken out for painting

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails apron-to-leg-joint.jpg  

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    735

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    That's a great looking base! I admire guys who can work with wood like that. I see you're using UB1-UC300 and CP servo's. I have a wiring diagram that I worked up with another member for that configuration. I can post it if you'd like?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Thak you and please post it, Chris. On your ClearPath STEP/DIR, did you use a 1K resistor between the +/- for long cable run (it's in the ClearPath manual)? I plan to use RJ45 and CAT7 cable for motor control, spindle control, E-STOP, and limit switches. The only caveat is I can only find CAT7 stranded cable at 26AWG. 23AWG would be better but it's solid.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Over the weekend, I managed to paint the frame. I also cut the steel base to size and tested them for fit. The steel plate is 3" wide and will be glued into the wood frame with polyurethane glue. They will also be bolted down into the wood using 5/16-18 bolts together with the aluminum extrusion. I got in contact with Precision Cast epoxy people but won't be able to pick up the epoxy until next week. In the mean time, I'm working the electronic side.

    On the safety side, I plan to use the charge pump signal to power a relay for 240V to VFD and ClearPath power supply (Antec 600W/76VDC). I also want to use the safety circuit to enable logic control to ClearPath servo (ENABLE+/ENABLE-) and Delta VFD (ext fault). The safety circuit consists of E-STOP, limit/home switches, VFD fault, ClearPath HFLB (4 motors wired in series, Servo On mode). Spindle control to Delta VFD would be using 10V (via PWM) and relay K2 for spindle on/fwd.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    735

    Re: 4x9 CNC Wood/Steel/Extrusion build

    Looks really good! Here is the wiring diagram for the ClearPath's and the UB1. The way the safety circuit is shown should work how you've described your desired operation. Your VFD control will be different than the diagram. Disclaimer: Use at your own risk! This drawing was made by another member here with my input. It works for how my machine is configured and is useful for a helpful guide. But ultimately how you wire your machine is your responsibility.

    With that out of the way I can confirm that the safety circuit in the UB1 works nicely. I've had it kick in a few times when I took too big a bite with the spindle and the VFD alarmed on overcurrent, and once when a screw backed out of the coupler on my Z-axis. When it happened, the machine just stopped moving and turned everything off and the software went into RESET. Nothing was ruined, I corrected the fault and restarted. Very confidence inspiring. The Charge pump control works well also, the servos and spindle is not powered until the software is up and working. And I did not use resisters on my servo connections. Your cables are going to be longer than mine but probably not by much. And the UB1 is sending 24V control signals and the CP's can work on as little as 5V signals. You should be fine without them.

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