534,933 active members*
2,968 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Haas Machines > Haas Mills > Surface finish issues on VF3-SS-YT
Page 1 of 8 123
Results 1 to 20 of 150
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47

    Surface finish issues on VF3-SS-YT

    Where to go from here? I have a 2005 HAAS VF3-SS-YT which has been treating me well except for one big issue.....surface finish. Any time the cutter makes a change in direction in X or Y it leaves a swirl mark in the bottom surface cut which can measure almost a half a thou deep which makes my parts look like crap. (this is using a 3/16 end mill) My dealer spent some time going thru the parameters which made a small improvement but it is still not great. I was then told I needed a better foundation for the machine to sit on which I didn't buy but I wasn't going to get anymore help until I made this change. I am in need of another machine so I told them to build me a duplicate machine for me and set it up at their shop and cut me a part to show me that the machine is capable of making a good cut on a more solid foundation and then I will buy it and put a new foundation under both machines. They did this for me and sure enough, the new machine cut just as bad as the one I already have. Their next step was to say that a VM will leave a great surface finish and that they would change out the ball screws to the finer pitch ones out of a VM but I had them cut my part (which is aluminum by the way) in a new VM and it cut pretty much identical to the VF. I am now being told this is how Haas machines cut and if I want better surface finish I need to buy a high end machine.

    My Haas dealer sells Toyoda's and wants me to buy an AF1000 but I don't know anything about them. They are going to have my part cut on one in the next couple weeks so that I can see the surface finish which I hope turns out good. Does anyone have any experience with the new Toyoda vertical mills, I guess they are built by Awea out of Tiawan.

    Oh yeah, I am comparing the surface finish to a mid 90's vertical Okuma and two mid 80's horizontal Hitachi Seiki's that I own. The sales guy who sold me the Haas said it would cut better than any of my current machines and I made the mistake of not having a test piece cut first before the purchase.

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    212
    What did the people from HAAS factory have to say in response to your problem and your HFO's evaluation, diagnosis and suggested treatment?

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47

    HAAS response

    My part was sent to the HAAS factory and I spoke on the phone with a tech from there who had me changing parameters on my machine which made some minor changes to the surface finish but it was still not good. After that I was told they where working on a fix......which then became that my problem was not a good enough foundation for the machine to sit on. I was also being reminded that this wasn't a high end machine and that my expectations where too high.

    That was when I had the second machine built and set up/run on a solid foundation at my HFO only to find it cut the same as my first machine.

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    212
    Please post a photo of the surface finish you are talking about.

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47

    pictures

    Hopefully this works. Here are two pictures of the same cut. One is straight out of the machine and one I marred the surface with a scotch pad so you can see how deep the swirl mark is. If I run an indicator over the surface if moves between a quarter and half a thou.

    This cut was using a carbide 3/16 dia endmill and a .005 depth of cut. RPM and feed rate don't make much of a difference if any.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMGP1321.JPG   IMGP1323.JPG  

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    212
    Yikes. That is ugly. There is no way that is "normal". There is a lot more going on here than just "thats they way they cut". Hopefully someone with more evaluation experience will ring in. Even the cuts before the direction change look to have a poor surface finish. Its more like the cutter is dragging along and not fully cutting. With the direction change the cutter has more time to cut to actual depth...

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47
    Yikes is right.

    Three different machines, two are VF3SSYT and one was VM3 with the same results in the machines. I didn't actually see the VM3 results but was told it didn't cut much better.

    Does anyone else see results in surface finish like what I am seeing on my part?

  8. #8
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    What coolant are you using? I have seen something similar but it was when cutting without coolant. I figured it was a case of a build up on the cutting tip which was stable until the cutter changed feed.

    Also you say speed and feed don't change much. What range of speeds have you tried?

  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47
    I use Hangsterfers S-506 coolant. I did an experiment a while back where I started with fresh coolant in my 10 year old Okuma and my new HAAS, I used the same setup/material, same holder/endmill in both machines with the same program and I got what you see in the picture out of the HAAS and my Okuma had a perfect surface finish (if you ran a scotch pad over the machined surface lightly you wouldn't see any marks made from the cutter).

    As far as speeds I have tried RPM's ranging from 2000 up to 12000 and feed rates of 2 up to 80. Doesn't make much of a difference. Any time the spindle changes direction in x or y it leaves a mark. The more abrupt the change in direction the deeper the gouge seems to be.

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    125
    what tooling are you using

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47
    I was using a 2 flute carbide endmill in a balanced command collet.

    I am thinking the tooling I am using is fine because I ran the same tooling (changed out the pull stud) in both my Haas and my older Okuma running the same everything. Okuma great and Haas......well you saw the pictures.

  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    205

    Lightbulb To Check If Spindle Is Good

    Is it possible for you to post two pictures of side wall cuts in the x and y directions. I can judge if your spindle has an issue.

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    35

    Lightbulb

    Hi

    just a thought, did you do a ballbar test on the machine? maybe you have a bit of backlash. If you don't have a Renishaw ballbar test, try putting a clock on the X axis touching off the spindle and move the X axis back and forth. Then try the same on the Y.

    Move the axis .001" one direction and then .001" the other, you should see the movement exactly on the clock. If it is wrong on the X axis go to parameter " X AXIS BACKLASH COMPENSATION" take note of what it is and adjust it by plus or minus 1 and try the test again. Keep doing this until you have exactly .001" on the clock. Then go to the Y axis

    Hope this helps

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    47
    I will be takign a cut tomorrow so I will post a pic of x and y side cuts

    My Haas rep ran a ball bar test and a vibration annalysis test and I was told the machine was within spec.

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2712
    Just a thought, has anybody checked for spindle end-play? Unlikely but possible.
    DZASTR

  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    205
    Does your machine have the HSM option? I have to ask, more than likely you have it.

  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    498
    let me ask you,what type of floor is this sitting on,i had a simialr problem long time ago on a wooden floor,the whole machine would jump with a quick change of direction,old factory building,hopefully you have a concrete floor thats at least 6 inches thick,i dont think its the spindle,if it was the direction change wouldnt change the cut if spinlde was it,would always cut bad with the spindle,so it must be in the movement of the axis,or the foundation,only two possibilites,you said you have two machines doing this?and one that doesnt,how close are the machines?same type of floor,diff?just trying to get more info
    steve

  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    498
    does it seem to be more with one axis change or both?i wonder if you have something loose or bad bearing in one of the screws

  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    498
    i didnt see the post where they tried it on a more solid foundation,guess thats not it,im surprised since my hass is 2 1/2 years old now and has always cut great for me,good luck on finding a solution

  20. #20
    Moderator HuFlungDung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    4826
    Man, that surface finish looks gross, kind of what happens after you burn the end off a tool but keep on using it anyway

    Will the thing cut a nice slot sidewall (profile all around) and to an accurate width?

    If the pullstud is correct, and the tool is properly retained, I would wonder if the Z axis has some kind of 'jitter' to it, such that it is not remaining stationary during the cut. Usually this would likely be a servo tuning issue, rather than a mechanical one.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

Page 1 of 8 123

Similar Threads

  1. Surface finish
    By skmetal7 in forum Mini Lathe
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-10-2007, 06:56 PM
  2. surface finish
    By fadalman in forum BobCad-Cam
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-03-2007, 08:30 AM
  3. Surface finish
    By d.a.v.e in forum Mechanical Calculations/Engineering Design
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-10-2006, 08:35 PM
  4. TL-1 Material finish issues
    By elaganis in forum Haas Mills
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-30-2006, 12:26 AM
  5. 32 surface finish
    By mroy0404 in forum General MetalWork Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-29-2006, 03:02 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •