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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Servo Motors / Drives > Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith
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  1. #21
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Can anyone tell me how it CAN be done (I have less use for the "how it can't be done" stuff...)?

    i.e. Can anyone explain it specifically with names of the connectors used and what they plugged into?

    I'd like to hear it from somebody who has connected an SGDA drive to a computer. Opinions are usually fine and I appreciate people trying to help but.... on this topic.... I need facts.

    This is such a frustrating problem. I don't even want to use servos. I just can't find any stepper motors that fit in my actuator case. Nema 23 /24 stepper have a shaft that is too short to reach the coupling and Nema 34 frames are too tall for the casing.

  2. #22
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    Can anyone tell me how it CAN be done (I have less use for the "how it can't be done" stuff...)?

    i.e. Can anyone explain it specifically with names of the connectors used and what they plugged into?

    I'd like to hear it from somebody who has connected an SGDA drive to a computer. Opinions are usually fine and I appreciate people trying to help but.... on this topic.... I need facts.

    This is such a frustrating problem. I don't even want to use servos. I just can't find any stepper motors that fit in my actuator case. Nema 23 /24 stepper have a shaft that is too short to reach the coupling and Nema 34 frames are too tall for the casing.
    I think part of the issue is that you have to be careful with the exact model you have (I found this out!) just saying SGDA is not enough

    It looks like the model you have is analog velocity or torque mode only (though even then, the users manual is rather confusing, using part numbers with 2 P options)

    If your drives are analog mode only then you need an analog interface card to run them. For LinuxCNC there are about 4 companies that make analog interfaces:
    General Mechatronics, Mesa Electronics, Pico Systems and Vital Systems. For Mach there is CS-Lab (CSMIO) and probably many others.

    If this is all too overwhelming, you may be better off just buying long shaft step motors or using a shaft extension, if step motor performance is adequate,
    since setting up a analog servo system with the required encoder feedback and tuning may be more of a project that you wish to undertake just to re-use
    the drives you have.

  3. #23
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    Apparently, my motors were originally controlled in the Cartesian robot by one of these controllers:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-Techn...rd!10530!US!-1

    Along with one of these interface boards:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ADEPT-SIGNA...ry!10530!US!-1

    I need to find out if this (or another one of their) interface boards can be used with regular Yaskawa drives or if they only work with Adept amps (the original drives used with these motors).

    I like the design of these Adept controllers. It looks cleaner. Each drive slots into the controller chassis so you only wire powervto a single unit and then connect to a computer through the interface with actual finished cables. Not a single screw terminal visible or pin-out diagram needed.
    The first link you posted is for an Adept PA-4 controller with Dual B Amps and Dual B+Amps..

    The second link you posted is for an Adept Signal Interface Box

    Did you ever get your servos to work? What did you do?

    My situation is a little different, I have these servos, but also from Adept modules....

    Tamagawa Seiki
    TBL-S
    TS4073N9E31
    300W
    200V
    2006

    Looks like the same setup is used to control them as with the modules you have.

    So I am looking at an Adept cartesian robot to source parts for the rest of my axis, and I have come across some that include the PA/4 controller with Dual B+ amps, and the signal interface box, teach pendant, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand yet.

    I have been looking for manuals and such, but I am guessing that there is no way to control these Amps with step/dir inputs.

    I plan on using a Duet 2 or Duet 3 board. That's because this will be an industrial quality 3d printer.

    Has anyone had any success with these?

  4. #24
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    If you can live with Linuxcnc the Mesa 7i77 will solve your problems. Its definitely industrial quality. MESA_PCW has already listed the available options.
    Rod Webster
    www.vehiclemods.net.au

  5. #25
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Quote Originally Posted by NIC 77 View Post
    The first link you posted is for an Adept PA-4 controller with Dual B Amps and Dual B+Amps..

    The second link you posted is for an Adept Signal Interface Box

    Did you ever get your servos to work? What did you do?

    My situation is a little different, I have these servos, but also from Adept modules....

    Tamagawa Seiki
    TBL-S
    TS4073N9E31
    300W
    200V
    2006

    Looks like the same setup is used to control them as with the modules you have.

    So I am looking at an Adept cartesian robot to source parts for the rest of my axis, and I have come across some that include the PA/4 controller with Dual B+ amps, and the signal interface box, teach pendant, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand yet.

    I have been looking for manuals and such, but I am guessing that there is no way to control these Amps with step/dir inputs.

    I plan on using a Duet 2 or Duet 3 board. That's because this will be an industrial quality 3d printer.

    Has anyone had any success with these?
    Getting those old Yaskawa servos to work is still on my (extremely long) "to do list".

    I basically lost patience and ended up using a stepper motor / Gecko set-up. I reasoned that I'd pick up the servo project again if it turned out that the steppers were not up to the work. It turned out that they were and, so far, they haven't been a limiting factor in work speed.

    I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.

    I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.

    The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

    I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

    With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

    IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.

    The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

    A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.

  6. #26
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    Getting those old Yaskawa servos to work is still on my (extremely long) "to do list".

    I basically lost patience and ended up using a stepper motor / Gecko set-up. I reasoned that I'd pick up the servo project again if it turned out that the steppers were not up to the work. It turned out that they were and, so far, they haven't been a limiting factor in work speed.

    I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.

    I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.

    The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

    I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

    With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

    IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.

    The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

    A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.
    There is plenty of information on these SGDA Yaskawa servo drives it all depends on what model you have as to how you can drive them P is position control for Step / Direction
    Mactec54

  7. #27
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Quote Originally Posted by rodw View Post
    If you can live with Linuxcnc the Mesa 7i77 will solve your problems. Its definitely industrial quality. MESA_PCW has already listed the available options.
    It hasn't been proven as an option yet IMO. Until someone does it and posts about it. Specifically the PA-4 controller and the Dual B+ Amps. For example, if they need a 240V 3 Phase power input, well that is it, they are useless to me. So many small details could jam things up. That is why I was wondering if anyone had actually done it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

    The only reason I was considering it, as these are the components originally used to control these Adept stages, and because if you buy a cartesian robot on EBay, they often come with all of this stuff for basically free. The sellers don't want to keep it.

    As this is going to be primarily a 3D printer, I'd prefer to stick with the traditional firmware on the Duet board.

    But I do thank you for your input


    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.
    That's encouraging to hear. I am making a super 3d printer with the knowledge that I could also mount a spindle on it and have something decent.

    I'm going for a moving table, rising gantry (dual column?). This should keep the moving parts in X and Y relatively light for good speeds and accelerations while still having a ridged design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.
    I wasn't planning on pneumatically counterbalancing anything, but it might be a good idea. What kind of gas springs did you use, did you find some without dampening? In my case it would be the entire gantry that would be counterbalanced, with a spring on each column if I do it.

    For my dual Z axis, I have not yet decided if I want to use my 600mm stroke adept modules, with 20mm lead, and planetary gear reduction.

    I have a thread about it here:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/linea...reduction.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

    I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

    With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

    IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.
    I've pretty much decided that Z will be stepper driven, but X and Y may be servos.

    The Tamagawa Seiki servos I have are labelled as being made in 2006. So not pre-internet by any means. I have started a thread here that I plan to update:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo...-software.html

    I am thinking of using the Leadshine ACS806, which is an AC servo driver, but has a max input of 80VDC.

    Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

    1200mm/s (which is what the manual says my stages can do) with a 20mm lead equates to 3600 RPM. I would be more than happy with 400mm/s or 944 IPM with X and Y accelerations in the range of 1/2 to 1 G.

    400mm/s equates to 1200 RPM, so It may be possible to get what I need from an 80V supply.

    I'm looking to find a Kv rating for these servos, which is explained by jfong in post #11 in the thread below.

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo...33064-cnc.html

    In the manual that came with my stages, there are some pin outs listed by wire colour. I'm going to try and update these in my thread about driving the Tamagawa Seiki's when I have time.

    I still don't know if it will work. Or how much I want to bother with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post

    The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

    A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.
    The servos that came with my stages are different. The Tamagawa Seiki's have a pilot diameter of around 60mm. They are quite large. So making up some adapter plates for Nema 23's shouldn't be too hard, but finding a long coupler may be a pain....I may end up having to make something.

    Thank You for taking the time to respond to my questions! Any additional input or insight you have is always appreciated!

  8. #28
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    I started with a cheap gas spring from Little Machine Shop and then replaced it with a set of those roll-down springs from McMaster (ones designed for continuous use). McMaster is also a good place for motor couplings - especially if you need an unusual size pairing. Couplings can get hard to find when you're trying to replace a servo with a 24mm shaft with a stepper with a 1/4" short shift.

    That was the other reason I went with the Nema 34 steppers. They have a far longer and thicker shaft which makes them easier to use as servo replacements. They can reach the ball screw with regular couplings without redesigning the motor mount...

    If you're making a 3d printer then you don't really need the high speeds or torque. Those things move at a snails pace. The extruder will be the limiting factor, not the motor.

    I'm no expert but I think it may be a waste of money to use servos if you're not using them on all three axis. There is two reasons to use them. One is that they feed back position info which, in theory makes them more accurate and reliable as the controller knows if steps have been missed etc. This benefit is lost if steppers are used on some axis.

    The other is that they are available in larger sizes with more torque so they can be used on those 10 ton mills to push a 1.5" end mill through hardened steel at 50rpm n stuff. It's not much of a benefit if you're pushing a feather-light extruder on a tabletop 3d printer.

    I also started out with visions of making a cnc base which could be used for everything including milling, routing and 3d printing. The more I learned from people here, the less it seemed like a good idea though. I'd focus on getting the primary need filled first.

  9. #29
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Thanks again for the good info. I'll be sure to check out McMaster for couplers.

    I have used constant force springs before, but they were for very light loads, like 2lbs or less. What kind are you using?

    I don't disagree you about the extruder not being able to keep up. I have said the same thing to others in different threads. I'm designing this machine to be capable of using full on large dual pellet extruders in the future, which will not be light, and should be better at keeping up with faster speeds and accelerations. That's a major factor in why my design is so overkill for a 3d printer.

  10. #30
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    Hey Goemon,

    The Adept stages come in "Small" "Medium" and "Heavy" varieties.

    The Heavy are 180mm wide and come with size 25 linear rails and a 15mm OD ground ballscrew.

    I've sourced all but one of my actuators....and I have a question for you sir.

    The Medium are 116mm wide but I can't seem to find any literature that will tell me the size of the linear rails and the ballscrew diameter. I can't tell from the pics because of the covers. Have you used any of the medium ones? Do you know what the internal component sizes are for these?

    If anyone can give me an answer to this I'd appreciate it!

  11. #31
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    Re: Connecting Yaskawa drives to a PC for use with Linux CNCith

    I've found the answer to my question. The "medium" has a single linear rail under the ballscrew.

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