[Goemon]

Is it possible to use AC servo drives with a PC running Linux CNC without a seperate motion controller and / or breakout board? I.e. Just a pc, software and parallel port output directly to servo drive like you can with stepper motors?

I'm not sure it matters for this question but my Yaskawa drives are this model:

SGDA 04 ASP

I can't see how these drives connect to a computer. Yaskawa doesn't make any parallel port or USB cables that I could find, or breakout boards. I understand that they are mostly used with industrial CNC controller boards which come with ports for convenient connection to servo drives but what do people do when running Linux CNC or Mach3 software only solutions?

Most of the lower cost breakout boards seem to specify that they are for use with stepper motors.

Is there another type of port used with industrial computers instead of parallel ports? If so, what is it called (so I can search for cards and cables)? I have a cable with a 51 pin plug on one end and 4 Yaskawa female signal ports on the other. Is there a 51 pin connection commonly used with industrial CNC controllers (from before Ethernet connections were the norm)?

If I have to buy a breakout board, are there any that can connect to AC servos and that are relatively affordable?

[skrubol]

Any servo that takes step/dir inputs (position mode,) should work just like a stepper. Looks like Yaskawa calls them PULS and SIGN inputs. You will need to tune a servo though to get decent performance.
I don't think there are any industry standard connection types. That 51 pin cable was probably made specifically for interfacing Yaskawa drives to a specific machine controller type. Generally you'll have to wire things yourself.
Most DIY'ers who want to go beyond parallel port and step/dir with linuxCNC use Mesa IO cards. They can use torque or velocity mode (you tune all the servos in LinuxCNC instead of in the drives then,) and have nice breakout boards integrated for not too much money.

[rodw]

Don't quote me on this as I have not played with servos. But I think you will need a Mesa 7i77. If its step and direction controlled, the Mesa 7i76 or ethernet 7i76e should drive it but you might need to add another daughter card for additional encoder inputs. Ask on the Linuxcnc forum. Someone will know for sure.

[mactec54]

Is it possible to use AC servo drives with a PC running Linux CNC without a seperate motion controller and / or breakout board? I.e. Just a pc, software and parallel port output directly to servo drive like you can with stepper motors?

I'm not sure it matters for this question but my Yaskawa drives are this model:

SGDA 04 ASP

I can't see how these drives connect to a computer. Yaskawa doesn't make any parallel port or USB cables that I could find, or breakout boards. I understand that they are mostly used with industrial CNC controller boards which come with ports for convenient connection to servo drives but what do people do when running Linux CNC or Mach3 software only solutions?

Most of the lower cost breakout boards seem to specify that they are for use with stepper motors.

Is there another type of port used with industrial computers instead of parallel ports? If so, what is it called (so I can search for cards and cables)? I have a cable with a 51 pin plug on one end and 4 Yaskawa female signal ports on the other. Is there a 51 pin connection commonly used with industrial CNC controllers (from before Ethernet connections were the norm)?

If I have to buy a breakout board, are there any that can connect to AC servos and that are relatively affordable?

Your plug is a standard 3M plug sometimes you can get a cable on Ebay these plugs are around $15 you can make a cable for any connection on the other end, so if you find a cable on ebay you can put anything on the other end you want to suit your Breakout board connection, not all the Plug pins wire connections are used, it can be done with a Ethernet cable

If you drives are Position Control then you can run them with any simple control like Mach3 Etc. using Step /Dir Control I think by your model number though you have Speed /Torque Control Drives which would mean you have to use +/- 10v to control them which you can do with a Mesa system and LinuxCNC control

The tuning is first done in the Servo Drive and is very simple with the Yaskawa software

[Goemon]

Is this the right thing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Electr...MAAOSwmBdblc31

When I try searching for "Mesa IO card" on eBay I get no results so I am assuming that people refer to them by a different name (if it is the sort of thing you can find used on eBay)?

My servo drive model is SGDA-04ASP which, according to the Yaskawa manual, means it can do both speed / torque and position control.

With that in mind, does that mean that I can go directly from a Linux CNC PC (via a regular parallel port card) to each of the servo drives?

[skrubol]

No, that's a step-dir card. You need an analog servo card.
The 5/6I25 are the basic FPGA control cards (5xxx cards are PCI, 6xxx are PCI Express.) They have a DB25 port and a 26 pin header that can be cabled up as a second DB25. Total of 34 IO between the 2. The daughter card for running analog servos from the DB25 cards are 7I77's.
Next step up is the 5/6I24 FPGA cards. They've got 3 50 pin connectors totalling 72 IO's. None of the ports are on the back plate of the card, so you may need to run ribbon cables out of your PC case (if you have one.) The daughter card for running analog servos from 50 pin cards are 7i33's. Prices are similar for both combos. The 7i77 does quite a bit more with fewer IO pins from the controller card (not sure if there's any down side to that.)

[Goemon]

No, that's a step-dir card. You need an analog servo card.
The 5/6I25 are the basic FPGA control cards (5xxx cards are PCI, 6xxx are PCI Express.) They have a DB25 port and a 26 pin header that can be cabled up as a second DB25. Total of 34 IO between the 2. The daughter card for running analog servos from the DB25 cards are 7I77's.
Next step up is the 5/6I24 FPGA cards. They've got 3 50 pin connectors totalling 72 IO's. None of the ports are on the back plate of the card, so you may need to run ribbon cables out of your PC case (if you have one.) The daughter card for running analog servos from 50 pin cards are 7i33's. Prices are similar for both combos. The 7i77 does quite a bit more with fewer IO pins from the controller card (not sure if there's any down side to that.)

In that case I am going to have to look for a different solution as there don't seem to be any used 7I77 cards available.

The guy in this video (for Machmotion) shows a small adapter board to connect a PC to the first servo drive (using an Ethernet connection:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5z3h...re=em-comments

Maybe they will take pity on me and sell me one for a price that, in some way, reflects the value of what I am buying (which is rare with CNC stuff).

I guess I can also try and look into how my motors were controlled originally as they came off an Adept Cartesian robot which is basically a CNC machine without the spindle.

Sounds like I am out of luck for finding a cheap parallel port to SGDA servopack adapter or cable.

[mactec54]

In that case I am going to have to look for a different solution as there don't seem to be any used 7I77 cards available.

The guy in this video (for Machmotion) shows a small adapter board to connect a PC to the first servo drive (using an Ethernet connection:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5z3h...re=em-comments

Maybe they will take pity on me and sell me one for a price that, in some way, reflects the value of what I am buying (which is rare with CNC stuff).

I guess I can also try and look into how my motors were controlled originally as they came off an Adept Cartesian robot which is basically a CNC machine without the spindle.

Sounds like I am out of luck for finding a cheap parallel port to SGDA servopack adapter or cable.

No you are not in luck that won't adapt to your Servo Drives, I don't know of any plug and play wiring setup like this for your older drives, which are very different to what is in the video

[Goemon]

No you are not in luck that won't adapt to your Servo Drives, I don't know of any plug and play wiring setup like this for your older drives, which are very different to what is in the video

What do you mean? The drives in the video are the same SGDA drives and have the same ports.

[mactec54]

What do you mean? The drives in the video are the same SGDA drives and have the same ports.

They are not even close to your SGDA

The Drives in the video are Sigma5 yours are 3 generations older than these drives, and have no compatibility to these newer Drives

[skrubol]

You need to be using one of their controllers for that adapter board.
That Ebay price is only $25 off the price for a new one direct from Mesa.
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?r...tegory&path=69
A 5I24 plus a 7I33TA is only $198 plus a 50 pin cable ($15-20) and shipping.

[Goemon]

You need to be using one of their controllers for that adapter board.
That Ebay price is only $25 off the price for a new one direct from Mesa.
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?r...tegory&path=69
A 5I24 plus a 7I33TA is only $198 plus a 50 pin cable ($15-20) and shipping.

I can't find that deal.

There must be other solutions. I can't believe that everyone who uses Yaskawa SGDA drives uses one of these.

Maybe the simple answer is "no you can't connect a Linux CNC computer directly to a Yaskawa SGDA drive".

I have to admit that I am having hard time understanding what I need to be searching for on this. I can see from looking at drives that are already set up that the computer plugs into the CN1 port of the first drives and then each subsequent drive connects to the next one using the the CN1 and CN2 ports and these JUSP terminal block things. I can't understand how the first CN1 port connects to a computer.

Every single wiring diagram I can find shows a line going from drive to controller with no further clues as to what cable is used or what PCI express cards I need to buy to add the right port.

[skrubol]

I can't find that deal.

There must be other solutions. I can't believe that everyone who uses Yaskawa SGDA drives uses one of these.

Maybe the simple answer is "no you can't connect a Linux CNC computer directly to a Yaskawa SGDA drive".

I have to admit that I am having hard time understanding what I need to be searching for on this. I can see from looking at drives that are already set up that the computer plugs into the CN1 port of the first drives and then each subsequent drive connects to the next one using the the CN1 and CN2 ports and these JUSP terminal block things. I can't understand how the first CN1 port connects to a computer.

Every single wiring diagram I can find shows a line going from drive to controller with no further clues as to what cable is used or what PCI express cards I need to buy to add the right port.

I'm not sure what the JUSP terminal block things are, but from the SGDA manual I don't see any way they can be daisy chained. CAN, Ethercat, RS485, etc. can often be daisy chained, but not simple step/dir or analog velocity/torque.
It looks like this series of drives date back to 1995. EMC (predecessor to EMC2, which was the predecessor to LinuxCNC) had come out 2 years earlier, but it was very immature and hardly 'industrial' at that point. Nobody used PC hardware for real CNC controllers back then, so that's why you probably don't see any wiring diagrams for hooking up to a PC.
Analog velocity/torque output with encoder input has been a standard for machine controllers for longer than step/dir has been. Step/dir happens to be compatible with hacked parallel port though, whereas PC's have no native way to communicate analog realtime outputs.

[Goemon]

Can anyone tell me how it CAN be done (I have less use for the "how it can't be done" stuff...)?

i.e. Can anyone explain it specifically with names of the connectors used and what they plugged into?

I'd like to hear it from somebody who has connected an SGDA drive to a computer. Opinions are usually fine and I appreciate people trying to help but.... on this topic.... I need facts.

This is such a frustrating problem. I don't even want to use servos. I just can't find any stepper motors that fit in my actuator case. Nema 23 /24 stepper have a shaft that is too short to reach the coupling and Nema 34 frames are too tall for the casing.

[PCW_MESA]

Can anyone tell me how it CAN be done (I have less use for the "how it can't be done" stuff...)?

i.e. Can anyone explain it specifically with names of the connectors used and what they plugged into?

I'd like to hear it from somebody who has connected an SGDA drive to a computer. Opinions are usually fine and I appreciate people trying to help but.... on this topic.... I need facts.

This is such a frustrating problem. I don't even want to use servos. I just can't find any stepper motors that fit in my actuator case. Nema 23 /24 stepper have a shaft that is too short to reach the coupling and Nema 34 frames are too tall for the casing.

I think part of the issue is that you have to be careful with the exact model you have (I found this out!) just saying SGDA is not enough

It looks like the model you have is analog velocity or torque mode only (though even then, the users manual is rather confusing, using part numbers with 2 P options)

If your drives are analog mode only then you need an analog interface card to run them. For LinuxCNC there are about 4 companies that make analog interfaces:
General Mechatronics, Mesa Electronics, Pico Systems and Vital Systems. For Mach there is CS-Lab (CSMIO) and probably many others.

If this is all too overwhelming, you may be better off just buying long shaft step motors or using a shaft extension, if step motor performance is adequate,
since setting up a analog servo system with the required encoder feedback and tuning may be more of a project that you wish to undertake just to re-use
the drives you have.

[Goemon]

Apparently, my motors were originally controlled in the Cartesian robot by one of these controllers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-Techn...rd!10530!US!-1

Along with one of these interface boards:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ADEPT-SIGNA...ry!10530!US!-1

I need to find out if this (or another one of their) interface boards can be used with regular Yaskawa drives or if they only work with Adept amps (the original drives used with these motors).

I like the design of these Adept controllers. It looks cleaner. Each drive slots into the controller chassis so you only wire powervto a single unit and then connect to a computer through the interface with actual finished cables. Not a single screw terminal visible or pin-out diagram needed.

[NIC 77]

Apparently, my motors were originally controlled in the Cartesian robot by one of these controllers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-Techn...rd!10530!US!-1

Along with one of these interface boards:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ADEPT-SIGNA...ry!10530!US!-1

I need to find out if this (or another one of their) interface boards can be used with regular Yaskawa drives or if they only work with Adept amps (the original drives used with these motors).

I like the design of these Adept controllers. It looks cleaner. Each drive slots into the controller chassis so you only wire powervto a single unit and then connect to a computer through the interface with actual finished cables. Not a single screw terminal visible or pin-out diagram needed.

The first link you posted is for an Adept PA-4 controller with Dual B Amps and Dual B+Amps..

The second link you posted is for an Adept Signal Interface Box

Did you ever get your servos to work? What did you do?

My situation is a little different, I have these servos, but also from Adept modules....

Tamagawa Seiki
TBL-S
TS4073N9E31
300W
200V
2006

Looks like the same setup is used to control them as with the modules you have.

So I am looking at an Adept cartesian robot to source parts for the rest of my axis, and I have come across some that include the PA/4 controller with Dual B+ amps, and the signal interface box, teach pendant, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand yet.

I have been looking for manuals and such, but I am guessing that there is no way to control these Amps with step/dir inputs.

I plan on using a Duet 2 or Duet 3 board. That's because this will be an industrial quality 3d printer.

Has anyone had any success with these?

[Goemon]

The first link you posted is for an Adept PA-4 controller with Dual B Amps and Dual B+Amps..

The second link you posted is for an Adept Signal Interface Box

Did you ever get your servos to work? What did you do?

My situation is a little different, I have these servos, but also from Adept modules....

Tamagawa Seiki
TBL-S
TS4073N9E31
300W
200V
2006

Looks like the same setup is used to control them as with the modules you have.

So I am looking at an Adept cartesian robot to source parts for the rest of my axis, and I have come across some that include the PA/4 controller with Dual B+ amps, and the signal interface box, teach pendant, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand yet.

I have been looking for manuals and such, but I am guessing that there is no way to control these Amps with step/dir inputs.

I plan on using a Duet 2 or Duet 3 board. That's because this will be an industrial quality 3d printer.

Has anyone had any success with these?

Getting those old Yaskawa servos to work is still on my (extremely long) "to do list".

I basically lost patience and ended up using a stepper motor / Gecko set-up. I reasoned that I'd pick up the servo project again if it turned out that the steppers were not up to the work. It turned out that they were and, so far, they haven't been a limiting factor in work speed.

I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.

I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.

The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.

The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.

[mactec54]

Getting those old Yaskawa servos to work is still on my (extremely long) "to do list".

I basically lost patience and ended up using a stepper motor / Gecko set-up. I reasoned that I'd pick up the servo project again if it turned out that the steppers were not up to the work. It turned out that they were and, so far, they haven't been a limiting factor in work speed.

I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.

I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.

The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.

The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.

There is plenty of information on these SGDA Yaskawa servo drives it all depends on what model you have as to how you can drive them P is position control for Step / Direction

[NIC 77]

If you can live with Linuxcnc the Mesa 7i77 will solve your problems. Its definitely industrial quality. MESA_PCW has already listed the available options.

It hasn't been proven as an option yet IMO. Until someone does it and posts about it. Specifically the PA-4 controller and the Dual B+ Amps. For example, if they need a 240V 3 Phase power input, well that is it, they are useless to me. So many small details could jam things up. That is why I was wondering if anyone had actually done it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

The only reason I was considering it, as these are the components originally used to control these Adept stages, and because if you buy a cartesian robot on EBay, they often come with all of this stuff for basically free. The sellers don't want to keep it.

As this is going to be primarily a 3D printer, I'd prefer to stick with the traditional firmware on the Duet board.

But I do thank you for your input

I built my machine for (reasonably) quick aluminum milling. It has an extremely heavy base and (fixed) gantry but all the moving parts are light. It has quick ball-screws and a 24,000rpm 7.5hp spindle. It has no issue making 1/4" x 1/4" cuts in 6061 aluminum at high speed. It's way faster than I ever hoped for.

That's encouraging to hear. I am making a super 3d printer with the knowledge that I could also mount a spindle on it and have something decent.

I'm going for a moving table, rising gantry (dual column?). This should keep the moving parts in X and Y relatively light for good speeds and accelerations while still having a ridged design.

I quickly discovered that, with high speed milling of soft metals like aluminum, the amount of force / resistance on the spindle and motors is minimal (if you follow Gwizard). The only challenge for the steppers was lifting the 35lb+ spindle on the Z axis. A couple of gas springs solved that issue for less than $20.

I wasn't planning on pneumatically counterbalancing anything, but it might be a good idea. What kind of gas springs did you use, did you find some without dampening? In my case it would be the entire gantry that would be counterbalanced, with a spring on each column if I do it.

For my dual Z axis, I have not yet decided if I want to use my 600mm stroke adept modules, with 20mm lead, and planetary gear reduction.

I have a thread about it here:

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/linea...reduction.html

The age of those old pre-internet servos makes them very hard to research. I found almost no useful info online and I've never been able to get Yaskawa to return a single email or call.

I saw a few Youtube videos that suggested they could be run with regular step n direction if you have the right know-how (which I don't). I couldn't tell if they were being used as closed loop devices or if they were just used like steppers (vids were in Russian).

With no labeling and them using non-standard cables, I was also unable to follow the instructions of anyone here who tried to help me...

IMO, if you absolutely need servos, it's probably worth ponying up for some newer models which are still supported.

I've pretty much decided that Z will be stepper driven, but X and Y may be servos.

The Tamagawa Seiki servos I have are labelled as being made in 2006. So not pre-internet by any means. I have started a thread here that I plan to update:

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo...-software.html

I am thinking of using the Leadshine ACS806, which is an AC servo driver, but has a max input of 80VDC.

Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

1200mm/s (which is what the manual says my stages can do) with a 20mm lead equates to 3600 RPM. I would be more than happy with 400mm/s or 944 IPM with X and Y accelerations in the range of 1/2 to 1 G.

400mm/s equates to 1200 RPM, so It may be possible to get what I need from an 80V supply.

I'm looking to find a Kv rating for these servos, which is explained by jfong in post #11 in the thread below.

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo...33064-cnc.html

In the manual that came with my stages, there are some pin outs listed by wire colour. I'm going to try and update these in my thread about driving the Tamagawa Seiki's when I have time.

I still don't know if it will work. Or how much I want to bother with it.

The actuators I got all had Nema 24 motor mounts built in. You can find Nema 24 steppers but it will limit your choice significantly. Nema 23 steppers are more plentiful and common but they're problematic for these mounts. The screw hole pattern of Nema 23 and 24 is incompatible but too close for you to simply drill new holes. I recommend using Nema 34 motors for this reason, even if you're using a Gecko G540.

A Nema 34 motor won't fit inside the motor cover on those NSK / Adept actuators but it's no problem using them without the cover. Just drill new holes in the mount for the Nema 34 pattern and source the appropriate coupling.

The servos that came with my stages are different. The Tamagawa Seiki's have a pilot diameter of around 60mm. They are quite large. So making up some adapter plates for Nema 23's shouldn't be too hard, but finding a long coupler may be a pain....I may end up having to make something.

Thank You for taking the time to respond to my questions! Any additional input or insight you have is always appreciated!