[7mjake]

Hello! I am currently a student studying graphic design but I've always been interest in industrial design and other, more 3-dimensional avenues. I have very recently become interested in getting a CNC router to use in printmaking and small wood working projects (so I know very little about the world of CNC). As a university student living in a small house, size, simplicity, and noise are all concerns. I want to find the right one that will be of an acceptable quality, but not too pricey. There are 4 specific machines that I have been looking at, and would greatly appreciate anything you have to say concerning any of them, but am also open to look at any other options that seem like a good fit. Ideally I want something from 10"x10" to 20"x20" and under $1000. These are the machines that seem somewhat promising to me with my limited knowledge.

-MillRight M3
Cheapest, but small carving area and worrying quality/lack of reviews
https://millrightcnc.com/product/mil...m3-kit-bundle/

-Bob'sCNC E3
Big carving area, worrying quality, good price (they say it's really loud?), upgradable size
https://www.bobscnc.com/products/e3-cnc-engraving-kit

-Inventables X-Carve 500mm
High price, small size, better quality, very upgradable/customizable
https://www.inventables.com/technolo...ustomize#500mm

-StepCraft 420
most expensive, doesn't include spindle, seemingly great quality, much higher vertical carving range, lots of cool attachments like 3D printing, 4th axis, laser cutting, etc.
https://www.stepcraft.us/shop/produc...11?category=26


Sorry if I sound misinformed, I'm so new and trying to learn as much as possible!

[ger21]

I'd lean towards the X Carve or Stepcraft.

But be aware that you get what you pay for, and you don't get a lot for $1000.

These machines are not very rigid, and will require multiple light, slow passes to cut anything.

[Biggs427]

Have you looked at the Shapeoko 3? It's in the same range as the X-Carve to me.

[dharmic]

Noise and mess will be an issue trying to run in a house, these things throw crap ~everywhere~. Also, don't forget your tooling costs in your budget - by the time you buy hold downs, vices, a few each of some different style cutters you're going to be up to a few hundred dollars even buying the cheapest stuff off eBay.

If you can, put it off a while and save a bit more to throw at it. You can get a halfway decent router with tooling for about USD2500. A year later, you'll have forgotten how much it cost but you'll never forget ongoing issues with a dirt cheap machine.

[wizard]

I have to agree with others here, these machines would be best described as flimsy. What is suitable for you does depend upon how you define quality work.

Before we go too far we need to back up to your question a out noise. Routers, especially ones that use low end hand held router motors are very noisy. If you have never heard a router run you really should find somebody to turn one on for you because the noise is bad even before they start to cut. The only way you might avoid the wrath of your room mates or fellow apartment dwellers would be to enclose the entire machine in a sound deadening enclosure. That enclosure would be a significant additional cost.

So if you can get by the noise issue there are ways to minimize your costs. You really should consider a DIY build as it is possible to save money but more importantly you can build a more robust machine. This leads to a big question, does your college have a makers space like facility that you can leverage to help with a build? Getting access to some good tools would make a variety of build approaches possible.

I'm going to suggest no more than a 12 inch square work area to keep costs, portability and noise control solutions under control. Some ideas:

1. One Avenue would be a wood frame build. There are a variety of good threads here that have such machines. Keep the machine small and it is relatively easy to achieve the stiffness a good machine needs. There are actually a variety of wood products to choose from.
2. Build a machine out of steel. The reasoning here is that steel can be incredibly cheap. If you have access to a makers space working with steel will not be a huge problem. Often you can find suitable steel free or very cheap as old exercise equipment. For some reasons steel scares people away but in many ways it is the ideal material for a robust router build.
3. Go the extruded aluminum route. You can either buy a kit of have the extrusions cut to length for you. Kits are easy but frankly expensive. Having the extrusions processed for you requires that you document what you want from the supplier, usually as some sort of CAD print. However going this route greately reduces the amount of work you need to do.
4. You could also try alternative materials like composites but I'm not exactly reccomending this as I have zero experience with such builds. Interesting here though is the idea of using a wood structure as a core upon which the composites are applied (sort of like boat building).
5. Lastly you could cast many of the parts out of aluminum. I mention this as a college with a metal arts program may very well have a foundry. It is an option but you do need to find your self a milling machine to finish off the castings.

In any event the above are DIY ideas for the basic frame. What will get you is the cost of the linear motion parts. There are a lot of options for linear motion but before we discuss that we really need to know how you feel about a DIY project?

[7mjake]

I live in a tiny house by myself (unfortunately no garage) so noise isn’t as big of an issue, mostly was wondering if it would be so loud that I couldn’t really do anything else while the machine works. I’d be down for a DIY if I could get better quality for less money, but I have basically no experience with metal work. My school has a very highly ranked industrial design program so I assume all of the needed equipment is available, but I’d most likely want to find an industrial design friend to help me through the process... the most advanced equipment I’m familiar with that I have access to is a 4’x2’ universal laser cutter. Would that be of any use?

[wizard]

I live in a tiny house by myself (unfortunately no garage) so noise isn’t as big of an issue, mostly was wondering if it would be so loud that I couldn’t really do anything else while the machine works.

Unless you are hard of hearing you will tire of the noise pretty quickly in my opinion, especially in a small enclosed space. Understand here that I'm talking about routers that are rated 1.5 horse power or more which is a good size to consider.

There is another option that involves buying a purpose built spindle. Most of the affordable ones come from China, but affordable is a relative term. A spindle and a VFD drive (plus an electrical enclosure) would blow out your budget. In case you don't know what I mean by spindle, this link: https://buildyourcnc.com/SpindlesAndAccessories.aspx has examples. These are actually very low cost solutions compared to what domestic or German manufactures would charge. In any event you would blow half of your budget so I'm not suggesting them but they can be far quieter. Also the really quiet ones are water cooled requiring even more purchased material. A quiet spindle does nothing for cutting noise by the way.

I’d be down for a DIY if I could get better quality for less money, but I have basically no experience with metal work.

I'm reasonably sure you can build a better machine for about the same money. If you decide to go with wood and keep the machines size reasonable you should be able to build the basic structure out of one piece of sheet goods. I say sheet goods because machines have been built out of MDF, MDO, Baltic Birch, Bamboo and probably others that escape my mind right now. A sheet of 3/4" MDF might run 30-40 dollars, Baltic Birch 80 - 100,. Bamboo maybe $200; you likely can do much better on any of these.

Note we are talking materials to build the basic frame, you will still need to purchase a bunch of stuff. You will need some sort of linear rail solution, leadscrews (possibly rack and pinion or maybe even a belt drive), steppers connection hardware, Electrical supplies and so forth.

My school has a very highly ranked industrial design program so I assume all of the needed equipment is available, but I’d most likely want to find an industrial design friend to help me through the process...

Well you can't assume anything. I do know that some schools have resources for students to use. Others have nothing, so your only choice is to ask around.

the most advanced equipment I’m familiar with that I have access to is a 4’x2’ universal laser cutter. Would that be of any use?

It might be, it depends upon the lasers capability. Some can barely cut paper others can do a fairly decent job on thick wood products. Industrial class lasers can cut metal. There may be value in cutting patterns, but it is not possible to say what good the machine is because there are so many variables.

One possibility that you might want to consider is searching for a cabinet shop that would be willing to cut your wood frame parts out on a CNC router. You would need a good set of prints which means a well thought out design. The commercial machines would likely be huge compared to what you are building.

Now all this talk about wood doesn't mean you should dismiss the use of metal even if it is for just part of the machine. When you are building a machine with a very tight budget and zero tooling or machinery to work with, you need to be creative and take what you can find cheap. Don't dismiss garage sales, estate sales, auctions and the like. I once picked up a pristine sheet of MDO for 5 bucks at an estate sale, tools are usually 10 cents on the dollar at estate sales. The point I'm getting at is that you need to be creative about the material you use and where to find those materials, if you want to keep the budget from blowing up. Another possibility is surplus shops if there are any in your area. Auctions of corporate or business materials can also be a win, office tables are often made of very think wood products, sometimes plywood and sometimes a mystery. Commercial printers are a good source of steppers and can often be had for a song at a going out of business sale.

In a nut shell $1000 is tough for a well built CNC router but it isn't impossible for a creative person who avoids paying retail as much as possible.

[7mjake]

If I decide to go with a pre-made kit, how capable would the Shapeoko 3 be? It seems to be highly regarded. I would primarily be carving art into MDF and plywood for printmaking and making small wooden knick knacks that I might try to sell if the quality is up to par. I’m not dismissing a DIY, just trying to decide if the time, effort, and learning curve is worth it for me.

[fretman_2]

Yep...go with the Shapeoko 3 over the X-Carve. I owned the Shapeoko 2 which is basically the X-Carve. You'll have fewer problems with rigidity with the Shapeoko 3 as the beams are larger. The Millright is an interesting machine, but it uses an X-Carve like beam...and it's a fixed gantry design. Interesting design on the Stepcraft too. But if that's aluminum on steel v-wheels...your going to have wear issues. I'd go with the plastic v-wheels on aluminum such as on the Shapeoko 3.

The Shapeoko 3 isn't a bad choice for starting out if you'd rather not design your own machine. If you're putting it into production it would depend on what you needed to cut...how fast and how deep to get your money's worth.

Have you looked at the Shapeoko 3? It's in the same range as the X-Carve to me.

[wizard]

If I decide to go with a pre-made kit, how capable would the Shapeoko 3 be? It seems to be highly regarded. I would primarily be carving art into MDF and plywood for printmaking and making small wooden knick knacks that I might try to sell if the quality is up to par. I’m not dismissing a DIY, just trying to decide if the time, effort, and learning curve is worth it for me.

There is nothing wrong with buying prebuilt but this forum is really DIY. To get an idea if the machine will do what you want find as many Shapeoko forums as you can. Every bodies expectations differ but personally I would not want the machine. On the other hand it is a good place to learn on and to handle very light work.

[firepong]

If your looking at a learning machine, I would look into the OpenBuuld's C-Beam or Sphinx. They are much more forgiving, have a good drive system (leadscrews instead of small 5mm belts), and a lot of upgradability.

I had originally started out on the C-Beam X-Large for my first router. Now, the machine has almost $2500 more into it, making it much more rigid, with linear rails and Ball-screw on all Axis.

Honestly, if you do not want to build your own, you want a machine that you can upgrade later and still have some rigidity. If a machine has smaller them 2040 extrusions, it's not worth getting because it would flex to much, even in wood, if you need precision. Both the C-Beam and Sphinx from OpenBuild's use Aluminum C-Beam extrusions that are 40mm x 80mm in size, which for me was the cheapest I would go before jumping up to 2080 brand extrusions.

[7mjake]

I was looking at the OpenBuild ones... any recommendation between the C-Beam and Sphinx? Also, if sound/accuracy are both concerns of mine, would I be better off investing in a water-cooled spindle?

[automationtechinc]

check this one if you like it, it is about 24 " x 15.7", about $1600

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...r/3-axis-6040/

[firepong]

I was looking at the OpenBuild ones... any recommendation between the C-Beam and Sphinx? Also, if sound/accuracy are both concerns of mine, would I be better off investing in a water-cooled spindle?

Both are great machines to learn on and upgrade later. It just depends on what type of machine you want. The C-Beam had a moving table, while the Sphinx has a moving gantry for Y. Before I had done the upgrades on my C-Beam, I was cutting Aluminum just fine, just have to realize you have to take shallower cuts as well as look over your CAM to make sure everything is right before starting (This holds true for all CNC machines as well). Just don't go past the limits of the machine and it will work just fine.

As for a water-cooled spindle, I had started out with one, even though I knew nothing about them. For me, it was a given to get a Water-Cooled spindle because my workshop is my garage, in which the walls between the house and the garage has almost no sound dampening material at all. Needed the space to be as quite as possible because of the baby in the house. A router was way to load, no mater which one I would have gotten.

Hopefully the above helps.

Cheers.