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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled
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  1. #1

    Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    I'm thinking on acquiring a spindle+vfd kit, but I'm not sure between;

    a 1.5kw spindle ER11 water cooled
    or
    a 1.5kw spindle ER16 air cooled

    The price is similar, water cooled costs 20€ more. My goal is to mill wood fins. wood molds, and foam boards for later fiber glassing.
    I might be wrong, you can correct me;

    ER11 - more precise for wood molds.
    Water cooled - more silent, keeps spindle cooler on hotter days ans longer hours of work.

    ER16 - much faster for milling large foams. Less time and energy consuming.

    If I could put some sort of adapter to transform the ER11 on a ER16, the problem would be solved, I think.
    https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1-5KW...269339550.html

    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    Re: Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    Both er11 and er16 are families of collet sizes. Er11 it’s 1mm - 7mm shanked bit, ER16 is 1-10mm, and er20 handles 1-13mm.

    Approximately the same range available in SAE sizes (1/16 - 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2”, respectively).
    Tubular latex pressure vessel configuration engineer

  3. #3
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    Re: Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    Quote Originally Posted by joaopcrodrigues View Post
    I'm thinking on acquiring a spindle+vfd kit, but I'm not sure between;

    a 1.5kw spindle ER11 water cooled
    Water cooled would be a welcome net based on noise. However ER11 is a smallcollet which could be a big loss against other machines.
    or
    a 1.5kw spindle ER16 air cooled

    The price is similar, water cooled costs 20€ more. My goal is to mill wood fins. wood molds, and foam boards for later fiber glassing.
    I might be wrong, you can correct me;
    Before we go too far what are the dimensions on these molds? I ask because if you are working with rather high molds in the Z direction none of these spindles may be suitable. It comes down to the reach needed. An ER11or anER16 collet May not handle the larger diameter cutters to get the stick out needed to do complex molds.
    ER11 - more precise for wood molds.
    There is no real difference in precision it is rather dependent upon the spindle and collet makers to build their products to a high precision.
    Water cooled - more silent, keeps spindle cooler on hotter days ans longer hours of work.
    Yes but you need to install and maintain the coolant system.
    ER16 - much faster for milling large foams. Less time and energy consuming.
    Energy is based on the efficiency of combination of the cutter, spindle motor and the tool paths chosen. You can’t assume that one 1.5KW spindle will be more efficient than another 1.5 KW spindle. If you find tool paths that load both spindle to full load you will not see any difference.
    If I could put some sort of adapter to transform the ER11 on a ER16, the problem would be solved,
    I do not know what you are trying to solve but ER 11 collet extensions are often used to extend a spindles reach. You would only do that when absolutely required.
    Don’t assume anything until you understand what is actually required to machine these molds. You may be better off going to a larger
    Spindle. It comes down to what sort of cutters you will need. Bluntly ER 11 is extremely small if you require any significant reach. Also I think it is fair to say a greater variety of router cutters exist in the larger shank diameters.

    So before diving in makes sure you understand your cutter needs.

  4. #4

    Re: Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    Ok... so help me out, taking in consideration these points;

    - I'm a hobbyist, so for the moment I can't afford a 400+ € spindle. If the hobby goes well and I can make a profit, I'll consider it, but not now (wife would kill me).

    - I want to make wood/plastic fins, foils and it's molds. It can go up to 100cm/40'' long by 30cm/12'' wide. 15cm/6'' deep.

    - I want to foam boards. It can go up to 180cm/70'' long by 50cm/20'' wide. 15cm/6'' deep.

    I suppose that for the wood would be a more precise and smaller cutter, for the foam would be preferable a much wider cutter.
    What would you advise for a spindle and cutters?

  5. #5
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    ER11 is no more accurate than ER16.

    When given a choice of collet sizes, I'd always go with the larger one.
    Gerry

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  6. #6
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    Re: Spindle ER11 water cooled VS. ER16 air cooled

    Quote Originally Posted by joaopcrodrigues View Post
    Ok... so help me out, taking in consideration these points;

    - I'm a hobbyist, so for the moment I can't afford a 400+ € spindle. If the hobby goes well and I can make a profit, I'll consider it, but not now (wife would kill me).
    We’ll tell her it is either a new machine or a new wife!!

    That probably will not work.
    - I want to make wood/plastic fins, foils and it's molds. It can go up to 100cm/40'' long by 30cm/12'' wide. 15cm/6'' deep.
    I don’t know the exact profile of your fins but given these dimensions I wouldn’t even consider an ER11 spindle. When I see ER 11 I generally thinkengraving and very light machining. Your machining is light but I’m concerned that you will not have the require tool reach with 1/4” dis and less cutters. The actual profile to be cut here is key.
    - I want to foam boards. It can go up to 180cm/70'' long by 50cm/20'' wide. 15cm/6'' deep.
    This will end up being one large machine. That makes it costly right from the start. You have the same problem though which is the profile of the part and how long the cutter needs to be. The only thing you have going for you is that most foams cut easy so deflection isn’t a huge problem. So you need to figure out how much reach you need to finish the part. This could be easy or not so easy to figure out.

    I suppose that for the wood would be a more precise and smaller cutter, for the foam would be preferable a much wider cutter.
    I’m not sure why the word precise keeps coming up here, mostly in the wrong context. The reality is smallspindle and cutters deflect and can be less accurate than larger spindles and cutters. I would generally prefer larger diameter cutters for a number of other reasons as you also get better chipremoval, better edge geometry and more choice.

    What would you advise for a spindle and cutters?
    It is just me but if I was about to build a machine this big I’d want a router that handled at least 1/2” cutters in its spindle. Power might not be a big deal considering the focus on foam.

    You will likely need more than one cutter possibly many. You will most certainly need a cutter for bulk material removal which might be a one or two flute cutter. You will need at least one ball nose cutter to do profiling. To get started you will likely need fixturing which may require a few other cutters.

    I hate to say this but I’m getting the feeling you are jumping into this too quick. Building a large machine is a big project. I would suggest reading some of the build threads and stickies. One sticky goes into gantry beam design in depth. The problem as I see it is that in the end the spindle will have been a trivial investment (yes at £400) compared to the overall cost of the machine. I’m assuming you are in England so the costs are inflated a bit. You machine will likely end up being 8 ft long in one dimension so your material costs will be significant. In the end you just need to mount a spindle that gets the job done but that is some time away.

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