[Kenny Duval]

I did talk with Jeff yesterday and he was certainly friendlier and easier to talk with than the Haas rep. If I came across a really good deal on the Syil like you did, I could probably overlook the shorter X-travel. Did you find your deal locally, or do you have a site/source you can recommend?

Oddly enough I was poking around the internet one night researching and happened to get a response from a search string that included an add on OfferUp. Was the last place I expected to find one. It was in California along with a lathe. If I had the room I would have bought them both. There is one I know of for sale via the Syil Facetube group.

https://southcoast.craigslist.org/tl...027389324.html

[Spinnetti]

Tm-1P seems to be the best value of the bunch. I had an 1100 and other than some initial sloppy workmanship I didn't have any major complaints beyond the enclosure. Had to sell it when I moved, and now contemplating if I should get another. or something like a TM-1P which I doubt I'd ever outgrow

[CadRhino]

I think you are right. If I’m not mistaken the TM-1p can be run off residential 220volt power making it a good option for folks working out of their garages.
Wish the 4th axis was not so expensive to set up.



QUOTE=Spinnetti;2349610]Tm-1P seems to be the best value of the bunch. I had an 1100 and other than some initial sloppy workmanship I didn't have any major complaints beyond the enclosure. Had to sell it when I moved, and now contemplating if I should get another. or something like a TM-1P which I doubt I'd ever outgrow[/QUOTE]

[sansbury]

I've had machines without a PDB or ATC, but there's no way I'd go back, my time is worth more than those savings.

Sure. I guess my point is that IMHO, the Tormach represents a much better value at $13k than the $20K+ you get to when you add the full setup. If you're like me, doing one-off parts and very small production, a PDB+ATC is more of a nice-to-have, as you're often standing at the machine anyway. Then there's the issues with the TTS PDB system, which is functional but fussy. I have maybe a couple hundred tool changes on mine so far with the ATC and I'm not yet comfortable enough to really leave it alone. The BT-30 system in principle should fix this, but the MX is going to be over 20k to start.

I just think as you get into that 20K+ range, the used options start to look better. IME, you start seeing decent deals on VMCs around 15k for machines that aren't ancient or beat to $#@! and back. While everybody knows somebody who got a perfectly-good machine for $5k, those aren't everyday finds unless you know lots of shops. If you want to set aside say 10k for rigging, some $ for service, and other things that cost more for an industrial VMC, then you're starting to look at the same money an 1100MX costs.

Now, there are some good reasons you might still want the Tormach. I have 250#/sqft floors in my shop, so even a MiniMill is out of the question for me. I like the PathPilot control over a 20+ year-old Haas or Fanuc. But I suspect a big part of their business plan is based on buyers like larger companies or schools whose purchasing departments don't understand used equipment.

US-based support from an established company definitely carries some value, but it is a balancing act. A company has to value your business and time in return too.

I think the big criteria for me here is what happens if/when the manufacturer goes out of business. A small company with one principal and a couple dozen employees is never more than one car crash, lawsuit, or heart attack away from closing up. To the extent that these are simple machines built of commodity parts, they won't necessarily turn into pumpkins if that happens. But even here, volume matters: if Tormach went Ch. 7 tomorrow, the installed base would be a big help in keeping an 1100 running. Fadal built 50,000 VMCs out of mostly off-the-shelf parts before closing up almost 20 years ago, and as a result, replacement parts today are very available and cheap by VMC standards, and tons of guys know how to work on them. Probably one of the best garage VMCs if you can't afford new.

[slodat]

I bought a Tree J-425 for scrap value, replaced the control, new AC servos, new spindle drive and so on myself. I have around $9k in the machine and it's up and running. Dialed everything in and it's as accurate and repeatable as it was when new. It weighs 6000 pounds, has a Yaskawa 5HP continuous/7.5HP for 30 minutes spindle motor, 6k rpm, 30 x 15 x 6 (on the quill, 20 something on the knee) travels, I have rapids at 300 right now without issue. That price includes a new Fog Buster for coolant. CAT40 tooling. I wish it had a tool changer, but I'm getting faster at tool changes. My buddy bought a used Tormach for more than I have in my mill. It's a toy by comparison. It works for his shop space, etc and he's happy with it. One of the best things about going through the machine and doing my own control retrofit is I'm not afraid of the machine breaking and I learned a ton that will help me make better parts. I know this isn't for everyone, but it's another option. When I'm ready to upgrade I doubt I'll have any problem getting back what I have in it.

[jwatte]

If you bill yourself $120 per hour for the time you put into the machine, how much do you have in it? :-)

(Then again, if this is a hobby, not a business, then the enjoyment of doing the restoration is a positive, not a negative!)

[slodat]

Very fair point. I'm expanding my business into prototyping a product I'm developing. It did take some time(a couple months) to get the machine up and running. This fit my budget, and I was happy to put the time and effort in. I couldn't get what I have, for what I have in it another way. My business is in addition to my 40 hour a week job. I get about 45-55 hours a week in my shop. I've been doing this schedule for years. It works for me. In the next few years I will quit the day job and go full time in my shop. I enjoyed the process. And, I know the machine and it's control pretty well for having it such a short period of time. Offering up as another path for a guy that's bootstrapping.