[Green0]

Ive been a mill turn user for almost 2 years. I do a lot of programming in cimco because of tool loading issues in mill turn. Ive done some jobs dropping a part into an existing job but I got the tool loading fix a few months ago and tried to settup a job today correctly and it was difficult.

Maybe im supposed to merge before opening the mill turn machine file? I opened the machine and then merged, because it didn't seem part settup wanted to work without the part present.

It was very difficult and I restarted the process several times. The trouble was the part wasnt comming in correctly on a wcs. The align to z function didnt really seem to work. I got the part in the software finally and through trial and error and several translate operations, and got the stock to be correctly overlapping the part, and oriented the way my radial milling function would have been presented to x in lathe and it seemed to create an alternate wcs to top and the part spun in the environment when i milled it. Code was ok but I would really like to see how a merge and job settup was supposed to go in a video demo that actually included the merge.

I took some training but mill turn had many problems that took several years to be fixed so Ive lost whatever learning occurred. This demonstrates how worthless person to person training is for long term resolution (you cant lookup a memory like playing a video)

This is why video examples are reasonable and normal for cam products. A customer shouldnt be expected to re-train constantly on basic functions.

I find part settup to be one of the hardest functions of mastercam. Ive watched many different videos on translate but they always seem easier on video than they are in real life. Things like clicking the gnomen ball and hoping to be able to then click a wcs and finding that the cursor wont snap to position on the wcs. Really dumb **** that just makes it awkward, slow and terrible to get to square one to begin programming.

The requirements are simple i need a cylinder face on center on the g54 wcs and the orientation may need to be radially correct. I dont understand why it is so difficult to do that.

[Green0]

The funny thing about job settup is it is like the minefield mastercam makes you negotiate before the job even begins. People dont need that. They need to be working right away because the actual work takes a lot of time also.

Mentally I would rather go clean a toilet than do job settup its that annoying. At least a toilet can be cleaned fast.

Mastercam should hire Bill Genc from topsolid to do video training for their product. That would probably be worth maintenance by itself.

[Superman]

You're on a Mastercam rant... you sure it is not a user or machine deficiency ?
How about letting us in on what machine & control you are wanting to setup on.

1st...
Have you approached the machine supplier regarding training ? ...... you need to know what your machine needs in the way of nc code, tooling capabilities ( what I need vs. what I have).

2nd ...
programming skill is experience..... you can't be an ace pilot when you've just mastered kite flying. ( what is your m/cing background ie mill or lathe... programming experience ?)
mill/turn is mill progamming + lathe programming.... you really jumped into the deep end. They are separate processes requiring different thought tracks....

I don't understand why Mastercam is being at fault for not being easy to do your setup.... It is the operator's skill with the machine that stats the ball rolling.... With Mastercam you place the part relative to the orign as you would have the stock placed in the machine..... then leave the WCS alone for the remainder of that setup....T & C planes are then used for the milling ops of different faces.

[Green0]

You're on a Mastercam rant... you sure it is not a user or machine deficiency ?
How about letting us in on what machine & control you are wanting to setup on.

1st...
Have you approached the machine supplier regarding training ? ...... you need to know what your machine needs in the way of nc code, tooling capabilities ( what I need vs. what I have).

2nd ...
programming skill is experience..... you can't be an ace pilot when you've just mastered kite flying. ( what is your m/cing background ie mill or lathe... programming experience ?)
mill/turn is mill progamming + lathe programming.... you really jumped into the deep end. They are separate processes requiring different thought tracks....

I don't understand why Mastercam is being at fault for not being easy to do your setup.... It is the operator's skill with the machine that stats the ball rolling.... With Mastercam you place the part relative to the orign as you would have the stock placed in the machine..... then leave the WCS alone for the remainder of that setup....T & C planes are then used for the milling ops of different faces.

The machine is a tt1800sy doosan twin turret. The control is irrelevant to cam but is fanuc 31ib. We have been running a pair of them for years. We dont use mill turn for transfers or timing codes, mill turn couldnt output a transfer that would run in the control, so its not going to post a job. We have to add hundreds of m201s and m200s to support load monitoring and change t codes to support tool life. The timing codes may work, but that work is easier in cimco. Job settup makes kynematic functionality pointless (you dont really have correct bar stickout, the sim doesnt run twin path so you dont see the actual program run, and the part transfer isnt correct). So mill turn is a high quality and featured version of lathe and thats fine. I wouldnt have bought it if I knew that on the front end but its ok and does have some advantages.

This is mill turn, a special module for mastercam that is settup differently. I have not been able to find the most basic video showing anyone starting from a blank screen and putting the part into the environment and setting up the job.

If it was lathe it would be no problem. I dont know how it could be the users fault when mastercam makes products without any decent material guidance for the customer.

I did get some professional training 2 years ago, but have obviously lost some of the message and have no reference material. My experience is currently in multiaxis lathe, 3 axis mill, 5 axis mill, and mill turn. Ive created jobs in all, but our shop took on cam as a first generation task- we dont have a 20 year mastercam guy to ask a question when something doesnt work. We do have 28 year settup operators on different machines, but not mastercam two generation experience.

Im beginning to think it might make the point to mastercam to make a series of embarassing youtube videos to show them what its like to be a customer of mastercam.

Like heres how to settup mill turn jobs by trial and error. That could be a video.

I have a horrible pdf tutorial for the product that i also read long ago. They spent 10 times as much time to make it so that the customer wouldn't get an efficient learning tool and would have to choose between 1500dollar training days and mind numbing many hours of pdf. Ill see if the pdf "shows" in pictures and words how they wanted it to start.

[Green0]

I consulted the mill turn pdf tutorial and they do no part settup. They just open the part. They must have used a part that was drawn in millturn for the tutorial.

That omits the solution for other type files that come in skewed. They did open it prior to grabbing their mill turn machine so maybe that would help.

Btw the mission of the cam product is obviously to make programming easy. I spent 20,000$ on training and I really feel like the lack of mastercam video refference material open source is going to cost them as fusion takes their lunch. Its ironic that Titan was himself a mastercam programmer. Mastercam could have set that up.

[Superman]

I looked up your machine....
lathe with C & Y axis plus live tools.... nothing really "special".
A standard Fanuc 4 axis post with small mods should be all that is needed in the way of a post.
Machine def file needs to have the additional turret, RPMs set and so on.
Control file set to suit the cycles, sequence numbering, arc definition plus others.

Read the comment section at the top of the post on how to program to suit the post.

Not sure why you are moving the WCS after you have placed the part according to the Z0 origin you would normally set a lathe job.... UNLESS... your part is already 1/2 completed & is oddly shaped.... but even then your setup would only need setting the Z and C axis... at the machine, not in Mastercam

The only thing needed (regarding rotary positioning) when programming is creating planes.... WCS is unchanged for the entire job... this is what ties rotation back to your initial setup. It is what gives out correct angles & rotations.

Setup for a multiaxis lathe is just an extension of general lathe programming.... with knowledge of milling thrown into the mix ie C axis or Y axis holes/milling, maybe a little surfacing on occasion.

[generaldisarray]

I thought the mill-turn product was for B-head lathes. What are you getting out of it that you cant get from lathe alone.