[mactec54]

You should not throw stones.
So you're saying it can only be run at 2 speeds??

Colombo spindles list their base frequency and their max frequency and the respective powers at those speeds. It's not a wye vs delta configuration.
Please teach me how 126 Hz (at the proper voltage on the Vf curve,) would smoke a high speed spindle with a max 300 Hz frequency?

The fact that it could be run at 126Hz is a ridiculous statement, it would over heat in a very short time at that frequency, if you need Colombo's phone number here it is 704 962 9644 talking to there Tech, may help you under stand what happens to a high speed spindle when the frequency is dropped down to low, but before you call you need a model # other wise you would be wasting there time

And again your post is not correct, there are only a few of there spindles that can have a low operating frequency setting and this spindle is not one of them

It also depends if his spindle can and may be able to be wired Delta for 230v In Star configuration it is 380v but may also be 380v in Delta configuration also just lower speed and lower frequency

Here is the wiring for a RS 90 Spindle I don't think his spindle is the same but will have a star or Delta configuration

[mactec54]

The 4 hp is fine (the 3hp of the old spindle was enough) I need the atc function.

The spindle is rated at 12k to 18k. Doesn't the frequency determine the speed? How would derating this affect the cutting power from 12k to 18k?.

What you need to look at is the spindle electrical box, remove the cover and take a photo and post it, also look and try and find a model # from that I may have some information on what you have and it may be able to be wired for 230v which some of these spindles can be

[skrubol]

The fact that it could be run at 126Hz is a ridiculous statement, it would over heat in a very short time at that frequency, if you need Colombo's phone number here it is 704 962 9644 talking to there Tech, may help you under stand what happens to a high speed spindle when the frequency is dropped down to low, but before you call you need a model # other wise you would be wasting there time

I've never seen a data sheet for a Colombo spindle that doesn't indicate it's fine to run at 1/2 its rated frequency or lower. This similar model Elettromeccanica Giordano Colombo, produzione elettromandrini - Prodotto shows torque curve extending below 100 Hz. Colombo's standard post storage warm-up routine (p5.2 of the manual for that similar model,) directs running at 20% max frequency for 25 minutes. Even most air cooled ebay spindles will run under half-speed.

[Al_The_Man]

The Colombo spindles in their catalogue show the two voltages when the star/delta option can be used such as 220v Delta 380 Star.
The fact that this spindle shows the same voltage in both panels may indicate the star/delta capable windings have not been brought out.
Al.

[mactec54]

I've never seen a data sheet for a Colombo spindle that doesn't indicate it's fine to run at 1/2 its rated frequency or lower. This similar model Elettromeccanica Giordano Colombo, produzione elettromandrini - Prodotto shows torque curve extending below 100 Hz. Colombo's standard post storage warm-up routine (p5.2 of the manual for that similar model,) directs running at 20% max frequency for 25 minutes. Even most air cooled ebay spindles will run under half-speed.

You need to call and talk to there Tech he will tell you different, they usually don't recommend going more then 2000 RPM less than the max on these spindles that have a fixed speed rating

So again you are making a statement without his model # and his spindle spec's Colombo have many different spindles that are very different in in how they can be configured, cooling they has 5 different ways they are cooled

And yes there are some of there spindles that can run at low speeds, but this depends on what model spindle the user has

This is there different models and cooling method's


Cooling is an essential part of the designing process of the electrical part (stator). It strongly affects on the spindle performances and duration.
Thanks to the long experience and the tests done on the field, GC spindles are offered in the widest cooling range types available on the market.
RA - Liquid cooling
The spindle is connected with a chiller that maintains the correct constant coolant temperature.
The flow and the pressure of the coolant (water + glycol) change dependently by the spindle housing cooling circuit dimensions and spindle power.

RC – Compressed air cooling
The spindle is connected with a compressor that provides the sufficient air flow to hold the motor at the right temperature.
The air flow and pressure (dry compressed air) change dependently by the spindle housing cooling circuit dimensions and spindle power.

RS- Cooling by powered fan
The spindle is equipped with a powered fan (V230 or V24) that provides the required air volume to hold the motor at the correct temperature.

RV – Fan cooling
The spindle is equipped with a fan directly mounted on the shaft. When the spindle runs the fan, thanks to an apposite room on the back of the housing, provide the correct air amount for the cooling.

RN – Spindle without cooling
The spindle is designed to reach the thermal balance without any auxiliary cooling source. This can be done thanks to the sizing of the electrical part (stator), according to spindle constructive features.

Notes:
1. Maintain normal operating TEMPERATURE between 100 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit, measured on the front bearing support.
Maintaining this temperature range will help maximize spindle bearing life and avoid premature bearing failure.
2. Spindle bearing will sound noisy during warm-up to 100 degrees Fahrenheit until thermal expansion reaches required preload.

[TTalma]

Sorry I took so long to get back.

I spoke with Colombo and and asked for their recommendation on how how to run this spindle. After some discussion on how I will be using the spindle they contacted Delta and the Colombo tech and Delta tech discussed it and were able to recommend a VFD to me. I purchased a MS300 model VFD49AMS23ANSAA. A 15HP, 230V VFD. It will accept single phase at 220V and output 3phase at 255V. It will need power for up to 49 amps, at a full load. Fortunately I have 200amp service, and the wiring for the CNC can handle 60 amps. But I will never reach full load, they calculated I would never draw more than 26 amps.

Colombo provided me with the motor parameters. I need to set the other parameters myself or with help from Delta. I'll be hooking it up tonight, so I expect I'll have questions tomorrow.

To clear a few thing that seem to be unclear (This pertains to my setup and I can't speak to any others).

- What I am doing is not common, most people buy the motor and VFD at the same time for their set ups. My VFD just happens to not work with mine. (I need the ATC not the power) and I already own the Spindle with ATC.
- My spindle is cooled by an external powered fan through an opening in the front, there are 4 triangle shaped channels at each corner.
- There are only 3 connections in the electrical box on the spindle, UVW,This spindle is not switchable between star and delta
- The spindle is variable speed from 12000 rpm to 18000 rpm (it is not fixed speed). It can run at any speed lower than 18000, but should only be run "In air" at less than 12000 rpm, or it risks ruining/overheating the VFD (Not sure why).
- Running the spindle to slow will not do any harm to the spindle, running it over 18000 will
- Using this vfd with my spindle I will lose power at the operating speeds. I will have more cutting power at 12000 rpm than 18000. it will have ~6hp at 12000 and ~4.5 at 18000. (This is fine since I could probably use a trim router for what I am doing)

So why I am I doing this, this way? Simple economics I asked the colombo rep what a 5hp spindle with ATC setup would be $8800. My spindle was worth $2000 trade in. so out of pocket would have been $6800. A new VFD with shipping was $822. A savings of $5978. If I burn this spindle out and need to have it rebuilt, I'll have it rebuilt at 230V (If possible)

[TTalma]

The way I see it is that you have a few choices:

1) Get a 230 Volt spindle

2) Have your current spindle rewound to operate on 230V, if that's possible

3) Install a RPC/Transformer to have a 400V, 3 phase system as I described in a previous post above

4) Have 3 phase power brought into your shop.

The least hassle option is just to buy a 230V spindle like the one you want, whatever that is. Trying to torture a 380V 3 phase spindle into operating on 230V single phase is more trouble than it's worth.

I have a 12 HP, 230V, 18000 RPM, ER32 spindle I'll let you have for $500, runs fine, but needs bearings.

If it's an ATC spindle I'll take it!

[Jim Dawson]

If it's an ATC spindle I'll take it!

Sorry, it's not.

I really think your best bet is to talk to a local motor shop to see if your spindle can be rewound/rewired for 230V.

[mactec54]

Sorry I took so long to get back.

I spoke with Colombo and and asked for their recommendation on how how to run this spindle. After some discussion on how I will be using the spindle they contacted Delta and the Colombo tech and Delta tech discussed it and were able to recommend a VFD to me. I purchased a MS300 model VFD49AMS23ANSAA. A 15HP, 230V VFD. It will accept single phase at 220V and output 3phase at 255V. It will need power for up to 49 amps, at a full load. Fortunately I have 200amp service, and the wiring for the CNC can handle 60 amps. But I will never reach full load, they calculated I would never draw more than 26 amps.

Colombo provided me with the motor parameters. I need to set the other parameters myself or with help from Delta. I'll be hooking it up tonight, so I expect I'll have questions tomorrow.

To clear a few thing that seem to be unclear (This pertains to my setup and I can't speak to any others).

- What I am doing is not common, most people buy the motor and VFD at the same time for their set ups. My VFD just happens to not work with mine. (I need the ATC not the power) and I already own the Spindle with ATC.
- My spindle is cooled by an external powered fan through an opening in the front, there are 4 triangle shaped channels at each corner.
- There are only 3 connections in the electrical box on the spindle, UVW,This spindle is not switchable between star and delta
- The spindle is variable speed from 12000 rpm to 18000 rpm (it is not fixed speed). It can run at any speed lower than 18000, but should only be run "In air" at less than 12000 rpm, or it risks ruining/overheating the VFD (Not sure why).
- Running the spindle to slow will not do any harm to the spindle, running it over 18000 will
- Using this vfd with my spindle I will lose power at the operating speeds. I will have more cutting power at 12000 rpm than 18000. it will have ~6hp at 12000 and ~4.5 at 18000. (This is fine since I could probably use a trim router for what I am doing)

So why I am I doing this, this way? Simple economics I asked the colombo rep what a 5hp spindle with ATC setup would be $8800. My spindle was worth $2000 trade in. so out of pocket would have been $6800. A new VFD with shipping was $822. A savings of $5978. If I burn this spindle out and need to have it rebuilt, I'll have it rebuilt at 230V (If possible)

Just something if they did tell you this, if your input voltage is 220v it is never going to be higher on the output,( 255v ) basic laws of Physics, it is slightly lower than the input normally

I see you live in NA the supply should be 240v not 220v supply and can be as high as 245v so what is your voltage where you live

You did not need a 15Hp VFD Drive I do this all the time and as I suggested 10 Hp to 12 Hp would of been more than enough, you just payed for more VFD than you needed consequently you will need more start up power with the 15Hp than would of been for the lower Hp VFD Drives

Your lack of posting the spindle motor model # does not help anyone, just from this post you said it had a powered fan that tells me that the spindle has a variable speed as per the name plate speeds, just that one thing changes how the spindle can be run speed wise anyway

I hope it works out for you, if you do not over load the spindle then it should last ok Colombo spindles are quite robust compared to others of the same type

You could of brought a really good Chinese ATC spindle for $2500 and they last very well also

[TTalma]

Just something if they did tell you this, if your input voltage is 220v it is never going to be higher on the output,( 255v ) basic laws of Physics, it is slightly lower than the input normally

I see you live in NA the supply should be 240v not 220v supply and can be as high as 245v so what is your voltage where you live

You did not need a 15Hp VFD Drive I do this all the time and as I suggested 10 Hp to 12 Hp would of been more than enough, you just payed for more VFD than you needed consequently you will need more start up power with the 15Hp than would of been for the lower Hp VFD Drives

Your lack of posting the spindle motor model # does not help anyone, just from this post you said it had a powered fan that tells me that the spindle has a variable speed as per the name plate speeds, just that one thing changes how the spindle can be run speed wise anyway

I hope it works out for you, if you do not over load the spindle then it should last ok Colombo spindles are quite robust compared to others of the same type

You could of brought a really good Chinese ATC spindle for $2500 and they last very well also

You are correct line voltage is 240V (It actually meters at 242V in my shop but close enough). I live in NY and for what ever reason, it's always referred to as "220" even on packaging, and when talking with electricians. It seems like everyone knows it's 240V but calls it "220". I have no idea why, it may be a regional thing, or something that stuck from 100 years ago. So I often use them interchangeably.

I posted the spindle plate in the first post of this thread, which is really all I knew about the voltage etc. It has the model number on it (RV110.22). But I've seen this model number used on spindles that don't look like mine when I google it.

The reason they recommended the 15Hp unit was that since I am running the input single phase the in rush current is ~double what it would be on a 3 phase input. I was border line at the 10HP unit and they gave me the choice, but the price difference was less than $25. I thought that was cheap insurance. It is over sized, but just enough to be cautious.

The fan for this unit screams!, it looks like a fancy PC cooling fan but it's crazy loud! and it's says it's only 160cfm. I am going to purchase a small squirrel cage fan and mount it to the Z axis and use flex hose to duct it to the opening. I can get a 200CFM fan that is a lot quieter.

[Bob La Londe]

After my difficulties with my VFD (Here's the thread if your interested: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...esnt-stop.html). I am going to buy a new VFD.

I would like to know what are some brands you have had good experience with and what to stay away from. And do you have any recommendations for a good supplier. I don't have a lot of experiance with VFD's so a good supplier is important.

What is important to me is:
Well made product that does not need tinkering (A set it and forget it).
A supplier who can sell me the correct product, (being able to size it etc.)
A supplier/company with good tech support that would be willing to walk me through every step of setting it up if needed.
Price is always a concern, but I am willing to pay more for a good product.

I will be avoiding the Huanyang brand after this.

I've attached a picture of my Spindles plate if interested.

I have Huan Yang VFDs and they seem to be working ok. Setup is confusing and support is mostly only from other users. I have a couple Delta VFDs that came on machines. No issues, but I have not needed to change anything. I've got an old Mitsubishi, but it came on an old machine and I only changed a couple things. No support needed.

The only VFD I have that might fall in the range of your request is a Hitachi I bought from Drives Warehouse. I had it mostly setup, but there were some things I couldn't figure out. I contacted Drives Warehouse after hours and left a message that I needed help. One of their guys got the message and called me back after hours from home and helped me get it going. He didn't know everything, but he knew enough and mine was an odd application. M

y Hitachi does feed 220 to the spindle its used with from a 110V source. The machine was originally all 110V so I wanted to keep it 110V in case I ever sell it. All my other VFDs are 220 in and 220 out.

I don't think many inverters will be able to provide 380 if you don't have 380 available.

[Al_The_Man]

I've got an old Mitsubishi, but it came on an old machine and I only changed a couple things. No support needed.

.

I used to sell and install Mitsubishi, both VFD's and CNC, the quality and support is like night and day, just a phone call away in N.A.
Al.