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  1. #21
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    Jun 2015
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Should you require a substantially customized controller for whatever reason then you could easily spend hundreds of hours or more programming it,
    does it really matter what the cost of the software/hardware is? Your time has/will cost far more than any of the software/hardware combinations
    talked about in this thread.
    And you break one expensive tool due to bad programming can be more expensive than any of the controllers we talked about yet, haha.

  2. #22
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    May 2005
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    1662

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    It's about the same "free" if you go with LinuxCNC or UCCNC.
    I was speaking in broader terms. If the commercial entity behind UCCNC loses interest what becomes of it ? Other things have come and gone since I became interested in this hobby, Linuxcnc was around then and continues to grow now and is actively developed. As developers have come and gone from the linux project new ones step in to add features they want or need, an example being the trajectory planner Tormach contributed. Linuxcnc allowed them the freedom to do so. I'm strictly a user and contribute nothing but certainly benefit.

    So when I said 'freedom' I was being a bit cheeky as there is more to Linuxcnc than 'free'. The open source software combined with the open source hardware trend will continue to gain ground imo, thinking here of projects like grbl and MachineKit.

    Anyway this is starting to branching into the philosophical and not much to do with the original question. I'll only add it's good to see Centroid in this market, more options is a good thing.
    Anyone who says "It only goes together one way" has no imagination.

  3. #23
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    And what if LinuxCNC looses interest? They are not payed and not working on this full time, so they are more likely to loose interest than a company like how you loose interest in hobbies. Same with grbl and other free stuff done by hobbyists as a hobby.
    Centroid company can loose interest the same way as the UCCNC company can.
    UCCNC is around for about 5 years or something like that and the company is 20 years.
    I think these relative small companies will only loose interest if we will not buy their stuff, then they will fail go to trunk and the heavy industrial gold expensive stuff will remain and the opensource which will result expensive stuff or hobby half baked stuff and hope for support.
    I see opensource this way but again maybe it is just me. And my point of view is general about open source not only cnc related.

  4. #24
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    Nov 2013
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    4282

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Hi,

    And what if LinuxCNC looses interest?
    I think that is extremely unlikely. As you know a number of mainstream manufacturers, Hass for one, have adopted LinuxCNC as the basis
    for their controller.

    Manufacturers such as Hass have the resources to have a whole bevvy of software developers to take LinuxCNC to a highly polished and crafted
    controller and distinctly Hass. I think that OEM interest in LinuxCNC is likely to increase rather than decrease.

    Centroid, UCCNC and Mach are all small companies, at least relative to the likes of Fanuc say. Should their products not find a profitable market
    then they will disappear. Each of these competing solutions has advantages and disadvantages with each finding a market that has sustained them.

    In the case of Centroid they have a turn key software/hardware package, capable and polished at an attractive price, there again relative to Fanuc say.
    UCCNC has a capable software/hardware package that is priced to compete strongly in the hobby market and/or low volume commercial market.
    Mach, or at least its latest version, Mach4 is a capable software solution that may appeal to OEMs because of the facility with which it can be customized.
    It is also priced favourably to compete in the hobby market if not the cheapest of software solutions.

    I have no crystal ball but it is my anticipation that all three companies will survive into the future with each having established a market niche.

    Craig

  5. #25
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    May 2009
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    33

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    I like the C76 setup from CNC4PC for the UC300 ETH. It has a lot of features, is similar in price to the Centroid stuff, and has its own builtin BOB.

  6. #26
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    Jan 2005
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    1943

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    It is nonsense that you have to have any "programming skill" to set up a basic 3 axis machine in LinuxCNC. There is absolutely no programming required. The step config wizard or the mesa setup wizard take care of it all. As stated, a basic 3 axis machine with homing and limit switches, and probing can be set up in an hour.

    LinuxCNC is also not going away. This isn't a system that is a one-off maintained by one person. There are many many people that contribute to it, including commercial companies. Tormach engineers helped with the development. This program started at NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) and was then released and taken over in an open source capacity, .

    I personally think it would be much more likely that the companies making some of the commercial hardware/software to decide to close up shop than for LinuxCNC to go away. Many of the commercial things people are using on their machines are from small, even one-man shops. What if the principal at those companies suddenly dies or decides to retire?

    Even if development totally stopped on LinuxCNC, there is still a vast user base for forum type support and the program doesn't suddenly stop working if development stops. The capabilities of LinuxCNC right now are so far above what most hobby users need that it would never become obsolete, even if there were no more updates. The same is true with Grbl. Even if no updates were provided from this point on it still is useful for what it can do right now.

    If I have an open source solution I can re-install at will on as many devices as I want. Commercial software that requires a company to provide an unlock key code means that if that company closes you now don't have that software anymore.

  7. #27
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    Jun 2015
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    943

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    If I have an open source solution I can re-install at will on as many devices as I want. Commercial software that requires a company to provide an unlock key code means that if that company closes you now don't have that software anymore.
    Absolutely nonsense. Mach3/4, UCCNC etc. all have license keys for life. Once you have the key you have it for lifetime. If no updates nothing happens you still have the key.

    he capabilities of LinuxCNC right now are so far above what most hobby users need that it would never become obsolete, even if there were no more updates.
    Same for any of the non open source ones. Nothing happens if the companies close, these softwares are already working fine, all the updates are just extras to what you already have and can nicely run your machine with.

  8. #28
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    1422

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by hk344 View Post
    Thanks a lot!

    I've been doing a bit of research on these. Seems you need a breakout-board also? Is there any way of doing it without the BOB? If not which would you suggest?

    Would the CP0-10V (https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Breakout-B...th-Charge-Pump)be suitable for my purposes?
    Just moving away from the LinuxCNC FOSSdebate for a moment, I grabbed a 4/5 axis BoB for my UC400-ETH off eBay. Something like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302960358514. I wasn't sure how well it would last so, at that price, I bought three. When it arrived it turned out to use decent opto-isolators etc and I haven't had even a sniff of a problem with it.

    The connectors to run out to the stepper drivers which you'll also need if you don't have any yet are available at RS Components, IIRC they're the JST XH type.

    Can be run with either UCCNC or Mach3.

  9. #29
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Can be run with either UCCNC or Mach3.
    Don't forget that it can run mach4 too.

  10. #30
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Yeah, I guess. I can't remember what it was but when I was evaluating between mach3 vs mach4 there was something about mach4 that left me thinking "haha, no."

  11. #31
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    Nov 2013
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    4282

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Hi,

    It is nonsense that you have to have any "programming skill" to set up a basic 3 axis machine in LinuxCNC. There is absolutely no programming required. The step config wizard or the mesa setup wizard take care of it all. As stated, a basic 3 axis machine with homing and limit switches, and probing can be set up in an hour.
    Agreed. You may recall this I posted earlier:

    All of the control software that I am familiar with (Mach3, Mach4, UCCNC, and LinuxCNC) do basic mill/router/lathe operations very easily
    and without any customization required.
    But its not the case when you have something special to do or is required....that is where LinuxCNC can be a challenge.

    LinuxCNC is also not going away.
    Agreed.

    I personally think it would be much more likely that the companies making some of the commercial hardware/software to decide to close up shop than for LinuxCNC to go away.
    Agreed. The three commercial solutions talked about in this thread have to date carved out reasonable market niches and I don't see there being any likely hood of them going
    under at this time. Of course that is only my guess. I agree however that one or more will fail is still more likely than LinuxCNC to fall out of favour.

    Craig

  12. #32
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,

    But its not the case when you have something special to do or is required....that is where LinuxCNC can be a challenge.

    Craig
    I guess it depends on your definition of challenge... The tool changer was done with no 'code' Just linuxcnc's integrated ladder logic. This was my first big project with linuxcnc (emc2 at the time)


  13. #33
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    413

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    The step config wizard or the mesa setup wizard take care of it all. As stated, a basic 3 axis machine with homing and limit switches, and probing can be set up in an hour.
    BUT, you can be slowed down by other things that sadly, are only addressed deep in documentation that certainly should be in Step Config..... DEBOUNCE settings for limit switches or other touchy inputs for example, as found in practically all other controls today.

    A warning of sorts should also be made clear, that if you have edited the HAL file with such changes, running Step Config a second time will overwrite everything you added without warning.

    None of that should turn out to be a deal breaker though as the control does work very well at a price tag no one could argue with, and out of the box, there are enough GUI's that should make anyone happy.

    I've installed it on a PC to run an engraver just to see what it was all about. It certainly was not hard, and indeed, Step config wizard lets you get most things going in a hurry.

    I didn't find the "learning curve" for LinuxCNC itself too difficult. I could however see the use of Ubuntu for many to be somewhat challenging as many are coming from an XP or Windows 7 world. That said, I think Linux MINT would be a FAR more user friendly underlying OS in this particular case, where most people would find their way around not much unlike the same way they have done for years.
    Chris L

  14. #34
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    For me Linux itself is a challenge.

  15. #35
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    413

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    For me Linux itself is a challenge.
    It shouldn't be, at least if it is MINT. It practically looks like and works like XP.. Same old start button in the bottom left, a popup menu of your programs, simple and easy software installation of uncountable free programs.

    One of those is WINE, which to my surprise, runs most of my go to Windows CAD programs (Autosketch, VCarve, Moi3D). Takes a few seconds to install. After that, you can simply click on any windows executable.

    Ubuntu used to be familiar, but someone thought changing everything up just because Windows was doing so was a good idea. To me, "productivity" doesn't include putting the minimize and close window buttons on the other side of the screen or creating a "Tile Like" kiddie crayons looking menu for programs and "apps".

    I've moved into MINT for my daily PC and seriously really do not miss any of the MS constant of chasing "potential viruses", "worms" or "Adware". That's all in the past for my daily PC use. Still have Windows PC's running other cad and machines though. Interaction between the two is seamless right out of the box with built in Samba settings.

    Linux Mint is far better for desktop use than any other Linux distro I've used which has been a few doing server duties.
    Chris L

  16. #36
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    Absolutely nonsense. Mach3/4, UCCNC etc. all have license keys for life. Once you have the key you have it for lifetime. If no updates nothing happens you still have the key.
    Did I specifically say Mach3 or UCCNC? No I did not. I was referring to a commercial software solution that requires a hardware specific unlock code. I was also referring to open source/commercial software in general, not specifically CNC software. That is why it is in a separate paragraph

  17. #37
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Hi,
    but unless I'm mistaken MINT doesn't come with RTE. Without the real-time extensions Linux is no good for CNC.

    My understanding is that the current release of LinuxCNC is with a Debian RTE Distro and a couple of years old at that.

    Craig

  18. #38
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    1943

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    Same for any of the non open source ones. Nothing happens if the companies close, these softwares are already working fine, all the updates are just extras to what you already have and can nicely run your machine with.
    I never said they didn't, but the below post of yours implies that if the developers lose interest in continuing an open source software that it would somehow be different . It would be no different, but you are the one that said it somehow is with this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    And what if LinuxCNC looses interest? They are not payed and not working on this full time, so they are more likely to loose interest than a company like how you loose interest in hobbies. Same with grbl and other free stuff done by hobbyists as a hobby
    So this answer still stands ... The capabilities of LinuxCNC right now are so far above what most hobby users need that it would never become obsolete, even if there were no more updates.

    I'm not saying that commercial CNC software is bad. I am only defending open source software because you keep citing what I consider bogus reasons to not use open source software. "What if's" are not a reason as far as I am concerned. I still use some specialized open source software that I have had since the 1990's. You probably can't even find it on the internet anymore but it still does what I want it to do so who cares. I personally would rather choose an open source solution (CNC or not) over a commercial solution as long as it does what I want it to do. If nothing else, it is open source, meaning the source code is available and I could do or hire someone to do modifications to that source code if I care to. I have done this with some of the open source software I have, including Grbl. This is something that is not an option with commercial software.

    If you are so against open source, then don't use it, but as I see it open source software inspires innovation and should be encouraged.

  19. #39
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    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Linuxcnc has switched from ubuntu to debian. Few years ago..

    You can install linuxcnc on other distros - but it is certainly easier to just get the livecd. There are 2 currently.

    Debian wheezy based (7) which is a long term support but will be eol at the end of May 2018

    Debian stretch based (9) which is also long term support - will be eol at June 2022

  20. #40
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    1943

    Re: CNC Motion Control Board

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    but unless I'm mistaken MINT doesn't come with RTE. Without the real-time extensions Linux is no good for CNC.

    My understanding is that the current release of LinuxCNC is with a Debian RTE Distro and a couple of years old at that.

    Craig
    It is true that the LinuxCNC iso download is running a Debian version a few years old, but you can install LinuxCNC on Mint if you absolutely want to.

    https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-install...install-or-deb

    Definitely not as easy as just installing the debian version from the live iso file, but can be done. It also looks like one of those dreaded open source linuxCNC developers is trying to accommodate those that want to use Mint:

    https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=272185

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