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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Spindle not working

    My 110v 800w air cooled spindle will not spin. It's got less than 10hours of use. Is there a way I can bypass the VFD and power the spindle to prove that it's the spindle and not the VFD.?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5728

    Re: Spindle not working

    I suppose you could borrow someone else's VFD, but no; you need an inverter to provide the 3-phase power the spindle actually runs on.
    Andrew Werby
    Website

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    Thanks, Kinda thought so. I was always going to upgrade to water cooled and I guess the time is now. Just hope it's the spindle. Unless there's a way to check out the VFD.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Spindle not working

    Does the VFD display appear to be working?

    Unplug the spindle, and check the resistance of the 3 wires to each other. You should get 3 identical readings.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

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    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    Thanks, Kinda thought so. I was always going to upgrade to water cooled and I guess the time is now. Just hope it's the spindle. Unless there's a way to check out the VFD.
    I did a continuity check and that was fine and eliminates the wires.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    It's working. I reset the VFD PD013 = 8. Then reprogrammed the VFD. plugged it in and it works. The only explanation I can think of that there must have been a surge or something that screwed up the settings. It had been working for almost a year without incident.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    It's working. I reset the VFD PD013 = 8. Then reprogrammed the VFD. plugged it in and it works. The only explanation I can think of that there must have been a surge or something that screwed up the settings. It had been working for almost a year without incident.
    When you said you plugged it in, plugging and unplugging could cause this problem if that is how you are using it, VFD Drives don't like to be unplugged to disconnect the power, and should never be used this way
    Mactec54

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    When you said you plugged it in, plugging and unplugging could cause this problem if that is how you are using it, VFD Drives don't like to be unplugged to disconnect the power, and should never be used this way
    My VFD is plugged into my control enclosure. It comes on when I power up the box.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    My VFD is plugged into my control enclosure. It comes on when I power up the box.
    You mean wired in, you would not normally have a VFD Drive plugged in to anything, or at least it should not be plugged in
    Mactec54

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You mean wired in, you would not normally have a VFD Drive plugged in to anything, or at least it should not be plugged in
    I'm not sure what you mean. It's a 110V VFD that came with a plug attached to it. I set up my electronics enclosure with a Gecko G540 a Mean Well 48V PS 14 gauge THHN on the AC side and 16 gauge on the DC side. I installed a receptacle for the VFD to plug into. It's been working for a year without incident until 2 weeks ago. After reprogramming the VFD all's well.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. It's a 110V VFD that came with a plug attached to it. I set up my electronics enclosure with a Gecko G540 a Mean Well 48V PS 14 gauge THHN on the AC side and 16 gauge on the DC side. I installed a receptacle for the VFD to plug into. It's been working for a year without incident until 2 weeks ago. After reprogramming the VFD all's well.
    The wire you used would be questionable ( construction wire) you have to take installations like this seriously, you are dealing with industrial components and have to be wired to code requirements

    Where did you buy a VFD Drive that already had the cable attached, this would not of been from the manufacture with a cable attached
    Mactec54

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    When you said you plugged it in, plugging and unplugging could cause this problem if that is how you are using it, VFD Drives don't like to be unplugged to disconnect the power, and should never be used this way
    I'm still having problems. It seems if I haven't used my CNC for a while the VFD loses the settings. So I'll reprogram it and see if that's the problem. I'm not sure what you mean by you shouldn't unplug and plug the VFD. Mine is wired into my control box and comes on when I turn on my control box, but how is that different than pulling the plug and switching it on and off?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    I'm still having problems. It seems if I haven't used my CNC for a while the VFD loses the settings. So I'll reprogram it and see if that's the problem. I'm not sure what you mean by you shouldn't unplug and plug the VFD. Mine is wired into my control box and comes on when I turn on my control box, but how is that different than pulling the plug and switching it on and off?
    You need to post a photo of how you have it wired it does not sound like it has been done correctly when you put the Parameters in you can lock them in PD000=0 this will lock them in if your drive is not damaged
    Mactec54

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    16

    Re: Spindle not working

    I think I get what you mean and I think because of unplugging the VDF causes it to lose memory, thus my need to reprogram it. My VFD came with a normal plus that I had to wire to the R S and ground. I'm just a hobbyist and may not use my CNC for a month or more. To let the VFD be on for that length of time seems a bit much, but I guess that's what needs to happen. I'm trying to set up my Z axis with a Makita 11/4 hp trim router. I'll see if this works. I've installed it, having to a little grinding for clearance. I haven't used it yet and am somewhat concerned about the distance of the Z travel. Oh well, I'll keep persevering. Thanks for all the help.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by FGS View Post
    I'm still having problems. It seems if I haven't used my CNC for a while the VFD loses the settings. So I'll reprogram it and see if that's the problem. I'm not sure what you mean by you shouldn't unplug and plug the VFD. Mine is wired into my control box and comes on when I turn on my control box, but how is that different than pulling the plug and switching it on and off?
    Turning the power on and off to your VFD will not cause a problem. You should Never turn off the power going to the spindle motor when the VFD is powered up it will cause the VFD to fail. My guess the VFD is either programmed wrong or defective.

    My drive is not Chinese maybe that makes a difference as it does not lose the programing.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Turning the power on and off to your VFD will not cause a problem. You should Never turn off the power going to the spindle motor when the VFD is powered up it will cause the VFD to fail. My guess the VFD is either programmed wrong or defective.

    My drive is not Chinese maybe that makes a difference as it does not lose the programing.

    It does not matter what VFD Drive it is they don't like being plugged in and unplugged and should never be installed like this

    The problem is he is not turning the power off, he is unplugging it this by it's self is going to mess up the VFD or damage it, here is a snip from the VFD Drive manual
    Mactec54

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6463

    Re: Spindle not working

    In other words, you power the spindle down to zero with the VFD and then it can be switched off?

    As the man, said it would not be practical to leave a VFD plugged in to a mains supply unattended for any length of time as the mains can drop out any time even for a brief instant and that is a switch off/unplugging by anyone's interpretation.

    Thanks to Mac for the tip......I'm sure not many people, if any, switch a VFD off at the power point while it is in the running position...…….I would think that if the motor was turning when the VFD was unplugged the back EMF would do some mischief to the VFD......would a set of diodes on the output lines cure that problem?

    What happens if, during a run cycle, a breaker trips or you get a complete loss of power etc...…...like they do frequently in South Africa.....total blackout for hours at a time...….I would think that in that case a UPS would be highly recommended.

    Down here in OZ we have an earth leakage device on the mains power board that detects a leakage to earth, or your body if you contact the main wiring etc, and will immediately switch the power off before you can get zapped to bits......it acts if it detects even a few milliamps of an earth leakage.
    Ian.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle not working

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    In other words, you power the spindle down to zero with the VFD and then it can be switched off?

    As the man, said it would not be practical to leave a VFD plugged in to a mains supply unattended for any length of time as the mains can drop out any time even for a brief instant and that is a switch off/unplugging by anyone's interpretation.

    Thanks to Mac for the tip......I'm sure not many people, if any, switch a VFD off at the power point while it is in the running position...…….I would think that if the motor was turning when the VFD was unplugged the back EMF would do some mischief to the VFD......would a set of diodes on the output lines cure that problem?

    What happens if, during a run cycle, a breaker trips or you get a complete loss of power etc...…...like they do frequently in South Africa.....total blackout for hours at a time...….I would think that in that case a UPS would be highly recommended.

    Down here in OZ we have an earth leakage device on the mains power board that detects a leakage to earth, or your body if you contact the main wiring etc, and will immediately switch the power off before you can get zapped to bits......it acts if it detects even a few milliamps of an earth leakage.
    Ian.
    Quality VFD Drives can handle those kind of problems, ( like Power Loss ) but the cheaper VFD Drive can not and most will fail when this happens


    This is what a EStop did to one spindle from 24,000
    Mactec54

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6463

    Re: Spindle not working

    I was under the impression that the Estop button cut all power to the machine.....how can a spindle winding be burnt out with no power present......looks like a water pump failure.
    Ian.

  20. #20
    ericks Guest

    Re: Spindle not working

    All of our machines have guarding/safety devices. The operators use these guards to stop the machines. Every time they do that(hundreds of times a day) the drives are de-powered on load. We have very few failures....if a drive can't handle the occasional power down under load then it's not worth having. When i first tested the cheap Sako drive i made a point of testing it numerous times to see if it could handle being powered down under load, no problem

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