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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Looking for honest opinions

    Hello all, I am looking to upgrade from my current CNC. Without sounding overly critical of it, basically the current machine has rigidity issues and is limited in working area. It wasn't cheap and I don't want to make another mistake buying something that won't live up to the propaganda around it.

    After spending several months of online research (forums, manufacturers websites, youtube, etc.) I have begun reaching outto various manufacturers that seem to have machines that would be an upgrade from my current "hobbiest" model, one of those being CNCRP.

    I spoke to Dan the other day and he was helpful, however he pointed me to this forum for additional information.

    So what I am wondering is how do current owners feel about their machines, the good and the bad. As I stated above rigidity is a major concern for me, as my current machine has plastic uprights and plastic router mount.

    Also how is Mach 3 doing? I understand that the producer is no longer supporting it, confirmed by Dan at CNCRP, and Mach 4 does not work with the CNCRP machines. I have no experience with Mach anything as my machine is pendant controlled. It is a little concerning to spend close to 10k for a machine with unsupported software. Maybe my concern is unsubstantiated, either way looking for some input.

    Next question would be about backlash. Do you all experience an noticeable backlash in you maching?

    And finally, Dan wasn't able to provide any references other then this forum. Before I go spending close to 10k, I would love to see a Pro machine in person. I understand most people would be hesitant to do so, but if there's anyone in the Northeast willing to demo their machine and chat for a little bit that would be awesome.

    I just don't want to make a $10k mistake, I already made a $4k one.

    Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    194

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    First question would be what are you going to use your CNC for? And you’re unhappy with a hobby-level machine and want to replace it with another hobby-level machine? Then again, industrial machines are closer to $100,000 and pro machines like Camaster are $30,000 depending on size and features. The CNCRP is a quality machine with a company that provides solid support but it isn’t a pro machine with a pro level of rigidity much less industrial. Then again, I’m using a 5X10 machine for my sub business and it is doing well but I will upgrade to a pro/industrial machine at some point but it is likely a couple years down the road.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    943

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Honest opinion on the internet, come on man.
    As you wrote you better find some real person with a machine like that and ask his opinions about the machine.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    362

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    There is an awesome amount of information in these forums. Many folks will be happy to share their experiences.

    What would be useful to know is what are your plans, expectations and goals for a new machine. What are you planning to use it for, materials and tolerances etc. You mention rigidity is important, what about material throughput, volumes etc? Hobby, professional or commercial?

    Many folks here are in the "hobby" space WRT their own machines however many are also in this industry as a profession as well. The bottom lines are you get what you pay for so if you are expecting professional, commercial grade results be prepared to invest more for your returns.

    Not that I am cynical, (it's been beaten into me over time :-)) but also be critical of imported machines, they might be "cheap" (inexpensive) and come with some quite good quality components but be prepared to put some effort in to "making them right" - especially with Chinese manufactured machines. They tend to ignore quality of workmanship and/or pride in their products but overall, the machines are (often? or sometimes?) quite good but can be much better with a bit of effort and frustration added after delivery.


    Cheers,

    Harry E.
    ===

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Hmm, you must have a Shark? I looked at one before I purchased the one I have now. I would not go less than a 4x4 foot machine. I have the CNC RP controller and pre-wired package running on Mach3 no major issues with it. The good news you can still use your VCarve Pro software after you upgrade from the Desktop version if needed. If I decide to change control system boards it will be the one using the Acorn controller.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    943

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    You can get a UC100 or UC300ETH or UC400ETH and try Mach3, Mach4 and UCCNC and decide. Those controllers work with all of these 3 softwares.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    250

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    I like my 4x8 pro. But I now think I should have spent the extra on the nema 34 package. I also do not have the spindle yet. Just using a router. I've been thinking of adding sheet stock of steel as a skirt around the entire thing to increase the rigidity of the base itself. I think that any of my vibration issues are from that base specifically. I will not know until I do the addition though.
    That being said, the rigidity of the gantry is there. I just think the base they sell for it is rigid enough on it's own. I have cut 1/4 aluminum plate and without the spindle I had some deflection issues from running the feed tastes so high to keep up with the speed of the router. But that is the problem with using a router.
    I hate Mach 3 though. At least with Windows 10.i never connect the machine to the internet for fear of it breaking. Every so often I had the ess throw an error and I have to end up rebooting and resetting the ess before returning to the line I ended with. If I had the time and an exact model of controller as well as not having to research everything to get it going again, I would change to a better software and controller. I hate Mach 3. It's garbage and it works, but damnit, it's ancient and barely there. It does everything. I just do not trust it at all. Maybe it's Windows 10 and Microsoft's poor implementation of everything for the past few years. I swear that whatever ai those people are working on, is going to kill all of us. I'm almost done with my 4th axis setup but if I were to try and go to another controller I would need 5 axis,I think, for the slave axis and the 4th to work.
    But it makes things well.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    841

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Syrfddc View Post
    Mach 4 does not work with the CNCRP machines.
    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Just curious, but where did you hear that Mach4 doesn't work with the CNCRP control system? If the system runs Mach3, and the CNCRP does, it should run Mach4 just fine. Also, note that the CNCRP control uses the SmoothStepper and ESS plugin for Mach4 is where most of the Mach4 setup takes place.

    More to the point, if you search around, you will find that there are folks who bought the CNCRP machine and control system and are running Mach4 just fine. The only issue I recall reading about has to do with spindle control. As for me I built my own control system using a PMDX 126, PMDX 107 (spindle control addon card) and ESS. I have never had any issues with my setup.

    I started out with Mach3, but when a Windows 10 update created an incompatibility, I made the switch to Mach4. (And yes, I installed the patch for Mach3, but thought it was an opportune time to upgrade). I have been very happy with Mach4 and am not sure why it has been so slow to catch on. IMHO, it's light years ahead of Mach3. It has a much better look and feel, and it runs great. Never a hiccup.

    Warp9 has a great tutorial on how to set up Mach4 (assuming you are using their SmoothStepper) and it makes setting it up pretty straightforward, quick and easy. If you were planning to upgrade to Mach4, you would download the Mach3 demo, set it up with the CNCRP XML file, then open the various screens and copy (or screen print) them for use in the Mach4 setup. Follow the Warp9 tutorial and you should be good to go.

    I don't own a CNCRP machine, so I cannot provide a firsthand opinion about their machines. What I can say is that most folks who have them are very happy with them. I've heard mention of vibration. Bolting the machine to the floor would probably take care of that. Folks use their CNCRP machines commercially, including making guitars, signs, plaques, 3d model for sale.

    Here's an example of a (Vectric Aspire) 3d model made with an older (pre- profile linear rail) version of a CNCRP machine:



    Gary

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    250

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post

    Just curious, but where did you hear that Mach4 doesn't work with the CNCRP control system? If the system runs Mach3, and the CNCRP does, it should run Mach4 just fine. Also, note that the CNCRP control uses the SmoothStepper and ESS plugin for Mach4 is where most of the Mach4 setup takes place.

    More to the point, if you search around, you will find that there are folks who bought the CNCRP machine and control system and are running Mach4 just fine. The only issue I recall reading about has to do with spindle control. As for me I built my own control system using a PMDX 126, PMDX 107 (spindle control addon card) and ESS. I have never had any issues with my setup.

    I started out with Mach3, but when a Windows 10 update created an incompatibility, I made the switch to Mach4. (And yes, I installed the patch for Mach3, but thought it was an opportune time to upgrade). I have been very happy with Mach4 and am not sure why it has been so slow to catch on. IMHO, it's light years ahead of Mach3. It has a much better look and feel, and it runs great. Never a hiccup.

    Warp9 has a great tutorial on how to set up Mach4 (assuming you are using their SmoothStepper) and it makes setting it up pretty straightforward, quick and easy. If you were planning to upgrade to Mach4, you would download the Mach3 demo, set it up with the CNCRP XML file, then open the various screens and copy (or screen print) them for use in the Mach4 setup. Follow the Warp9 tutorial and you should be good to go.

    I don't own a CNCRP machine, so I cannot provide a firsthand opinion about their machines. What I can say is that most folks who have them are very happy with them. I've heard mention of vibration. Bolting the machine to the floor would probably take care of that. Folks use their CNCRP machines commercially, including making guitars, signs, plaques, 3d model for sale.

    Here's an example of a (Vectric Aspire) 3d model made with an older (pre- profile linear rail) version of a CNCRP machine:



    Gary
    Well, that's good to hear. I wish cncrp would support and release the setups for mach4. Especially since the windows 10 issue occurred. I'm still on an earlier version of Windows. I made an image of my machine to restore back to if I ever accidentally updated. I know that cncrp is not a huge company capable of moving fast, but I would like to see them move forward more.
    They added the plasma setup and are working on a 4th axis addition. I hope they add mach4 or something else to their line. Maybe it's because of the amount of people who bought them already that may be upset with lack of maxh3 support from them.
    I haven't had the time to learn what's needed to recreate the scripts they have for touch plates and whatnot . It has taken me a year of off and on work to get my 4th axis to where it is now. I could only imagine how long it would take to do the whole setup on my own.
    I will say that I'm mostly happy with my CNC. The price was what I could go for and I've learned so much in the time I've had it. I've created lots of stuff with it and I've grown confident in what I do know now. I also realized I need a CNC mill to do some of the work I want to do. I wouldn't know that without having this first.
    I do think bolting to the floor would drastically reduce vibration. I've even considered making forms to place on the bottom "shelf" and fill with concrete. I think the base needs more mass. Adding steel to every side too.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post

    Just curious, but where did you hear that Mach4 doesn't work with the CNCRP control system? If the system runs Mach3, and the CNCRP does, it should run Mach4 just fine.


    Gary, I had seen it in one if the forums and questioned Dan at CNCRP about it, which he confirmed, Mach 4 does not work with there machines.

    Thanks for the response.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Hmm, you must have a Shark? I looked at one before I purchased the one I have now. I would not go less than a 4x4 foot machine. I have the CNC RP controller and pre-wired package running on Mach3 no major issues with it. The good news you can still use your VCarve Pro software after you upgrade from the Desktop version if needed. If I decide to change control system boards it will be the one using the Acorn controller.
    You sir get the prize! Yes it is, I have learned a lot with it, but would not do it again.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by he1957 View Post
    There is an awesome amount of information in these forums. Many folks will be happy to share their experiences.

    What would be useful to know is what are your plans, expectations and goals for a new machine. What are you planning to use it for, materials and tolerances etc. You mention rigidity is important, what about material throughput, volumes etc? Hobby, professional or commercial?

    Many folks here are in the "hobby" space WRT their own machines however many are also in this industry as a profession as well. The bottom lines are you get what you pay for so if you are expecting professional, commercial grade results be prepared to invest more for your returns.

    Not that I am cynical, (it's been beaten into me over time :-)) but also be critical of imported machines, they might be "cheap" (inexpensive) and come with some quite good quality components but be prepared to put some effort in to "making them right" - especially with Chinese manufactured machines. They tend to ignore quality of workmanship and/or pride in their products but overall, the machines are (often? or sometimes?) quite good but can be much better with a bit of effort and frustration added after delivery.


    Cheers,

    Harry E.
    ===
    Harry, thanks for the response.

    I am not looking for an industrial machine, it would be impossible to justify 100k to my wife.

    At this point I am making small signs and random parts for other small projects. I would like to be able to have a larger work area, say 4x4. Developing this into a small business venture is certainly something that I am pursuing and don't really want to spend 10k on a machine that will be a let down.

    I am just a bit gun shy about not seeing one in person, and the Mach 3 issue, after being so disappointed with my current machine.

    Thank you for the response.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by OlfCNC View Post
    Honest opinion on the internet, come on man.
    As you wrote you better find some real person with a machine like that and ask his opinions about the machine.
    This made me laugh! Thanks for the response.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    First question would be what are you going to use your CNC for? And you’re unhappy with a hobby-level machine and want to replace it with another hobby-level machine? Then again, industrial machines are closer to $100,000 and pro machines like Camaster are $30,000 depending on size and features. The CNCRP is a quality machine with a company that provides solid support but it isn’t a pro machine with a pro level of rigidity much less industrial. Then again, I’m using a 5X10 machine for my sub business and it is doing well but I will upgrade to a pro/industrial machine at some point but it is likely a couple years down the road.
    Thanks for the response.

    I am not looking to get into a 100k machine by any means. (Ouch) While I have no doubt there's a market for such capabilities, it's just way above my level. Mainly looking to expand my cutting area, speed up cutting, and take a significant step up in rigidity.

    As an example, I have been making 6"x18" signs for realtors to give to their clients as closing gifts. It's a simple v-carving and takes close to an hour. I currently have to slow down my feed rates to 20-30ipm to avoid chatter.

    It would be nice to have the capability to use sheet goods as well. That is mostly thinking down the road some, but I am trying to avoid spending money and in a year regretting that I didn't pony up a little more.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    I know several people with CNCRP machines, and they are very happy with them. There are a ton of CNCRP users, and you just don't hear anything bad about them.
    I would only recommend the PRO version, though.

    You didn't say what size machine you are looking at, but a smaller Camaster might be around $10K.

    I was told by CNCRP over a year ago, that the reason they were still using Mach3 was due to their customers wanting it.

    As mentioned, you should have no issues using Mach4 with their plug and play kit, as it uses the ESS.

    You could always build your own control, using LinuxCNC, Centroid Acorn, UCCNC, etc. All are better than Mach3, and you could save money building your own system.

    You could also buy a complete Acorn control setup from Gary Campbell, who does a lot of machine conversions.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I know several people with CNCRP machines, and they are very happy with them. There are a ton of CNCRP users, and you just don't hear anything bad about them.
    I would only recommend the PRO version, though.

    You didn't say what size machine you are looking at, but a smaller Camaster might be around $10K.

    I was told by CNCRP over a year ago, that the reason they were still using Mach3 was due to their customers wanting it.

    As mentioned, you should have no issues using Mach4 with their plug and play kit, as it uses the ESS.

    You could always build your own control, using LinuxCNC, Centroid Acorn, UCCNC, etc. All are better than Mach3, and you could save money building your own system.

    You could also buy a complete Acorn control setup from Gary Campbell, who does a lot of machine conversions.
    From what I can tell, most of the CNCRP owners are quite happy with there machines, which is good to hear. It seems quite a few have had to "fine tune" their machines to achieve their desired results, which of course is subjective to every individuals own personality and opinion.

    I am trying to gather as much information as I can before making the leap into a more expensive machine. Probably has a lot to do with the disappointment I have with my current machine.



    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    I am trying to gather as much information as I can before making the leap into a more expensive machine. Probably has a lot to do with the disappointment I have with my current machine.
    Most machines on the market that cost less than $5k-$6K (complete, ready to run) are not very good. And there are a lot of them out there.
    Quality components are not cheap.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    I want to be sure and thank all you for the great responses to my inquiry. They have been very helpful.

    Most of what I do at this point is Hobbiest level work. I don't forsee becoming a large commercial/industrial cnc operator anytime in the next 10 years, or ever actually. That being said, I would like a machine that can handle larger material. An improvement in feed rates and cut quality are also desirable. Currently I have to program most vcarings at 20-30ipm to avoid chatter, even in a softer wood like Cherry, nevermind Hard Maple.

    Developing this into a small one man business is certainly a goal of mine.

    I believe that the CNCRP PRO4848 would be a significant improvement over my Shark HD4 (25x25) and am feeling better about this upgrade, but I really want to see one in person before I go dropping that kind of coin. Just trying to avoid buyers remorse again.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    21

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Most machines on the market that cost less than $5k-$6K (complete, ready to run) are not very good. And there are a lot of them out there.
    Quality components are not cheap.
    Yeah, I found out the hard way....

    I hope that I am not sounding like a cheapskate, that's certainly not the goal, nor putting down any particular manufacturer. My current setup would be fine for most hobbyists.

    As more people here about my work, requests to complete commissions is slowly increasing. The lack of capacity and rigidity is a bit of a bottleneck. I am certainly not going to get rich off this, but would like to get into a machine that would be able to pay for itself after a couple years.

    Thanks again.

    -Lee

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Looking for honest opinions

    The next step up from a CNCRP Pro machine would probably be a Camaster Stinger II, which starts at $13K for a 4x4. Add another $2K (±) for an HSD spindle.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

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