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  1. #1

    New Grizzly Mills

    I wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but I think this area is appropriate.

    I get the Grizzly catalog in the mail (as a G0704 owner) and when paging through it noticed that they now offer three different mills that are quite a step up from their hobby grade and benchtop stuff. These mills being fully enclosed CNC machines, options include tool changer carousels and BT30 tooling, 10k spindles, reasonable work envelopes, Siemens controls, etc.. Quite serious machines. Keep in mind I have always seen my next logical step up to be a Tormach, maybe a Novakon. The parts I make aren't particularly large but I do look forward to greater rigidity.

    The new Grizzly mid level machine, at 3350lbs (including enclosure, tool changer, etc.) is $26k, that includes the 8 tool carousel.

    The larger machine is 4200 lbs (again with all extra items) is $30k, it has a 10 position tool changer and about the same work space as the Tormach 1100m.

    With a 3hp 10k spindle, listed +/-.0006" repeat position, 400 ipm rapids, 6 second tool change, these machines are pretty damn impressive. At least on paper, they outperform the Tormach, and while there is a price to pay, is still pretty low. When I priced out a fully setup 1100m, being 2hp and 7500 rpm, R8 spindle (with TTS, not a huge fan of it long term), it comes to $21.5k. Keep in mind the Tormach is only good for 110ipm according to their documentation. For any real production work the Grizzly machines would eat it alive assuming it perform as advertised.

    It's probably too early to hear any feedback, these machines aren't even listed on their website yet, but they are intriguing.

    Pages 638-640 shows you the goods.

    http://cdn0.grizzly.com/catalog/2019...atalog_Web.pdf

    Screen shot of the mid level machine.


  2. #2
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    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    CL_MotoTech,
    I completely agree, someone like Tormach may take a frosting and many of us would spend the dough for one of these new machines.
    Thanks for sharing the dessert.
    Live from downtown Burbank, home of the endless Cup-O-Joe.
    CNCZones favorite pal, JoeyB
    A doughnut a day keeps the doctor away.

  3. #3
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    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    20 or 30K???...………..I thought my Skyfire SVM-0 was expensive when I paid the final bill at 6K + another 2K for additional tooling.... vice, tool holders, collets etc.
    Ian.

  4. #4

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    What are the specs on the skyfire and what was the price?

    Grizzly has a pretty good reputation with good customer support. I would hope this would parlay into these machines as well.

  5. #5

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Out of curiosity I looked at the Haas Mini Mill. All of the Mini Mills out perform the Grizzly machine on work envelope (though the grizzly has better Z) and horsepower. The cheapest Haas unit, the regular Mini Mill costs $30k, has a 10 tool carousel, and a 6k spindle. When I built the Haas out with a 10k spindle but no other upgrades the price climbed to $34k. The Haas changes tools at 4.2 seconds, so another win for it. Despite this, I think It's a tough call for the Haas over the Grizzly, but I think the Grizzly is still a better deal than an 1100M. If you do production anything, the Grizzly definitely outperforms the 1100m. The Haas however represents a modest improvement yet. A chip auger is certainly a giant advantage that the Haas has, especially in that it looks like the Grizzly has a rear position chip drawer meaning the machine will need significant floor space just for general cleaning.

    I managed to find these two mills on the Grizzly site, they are the G0876 and G0877.

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...CNC-Mill/G0877
    https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...CNC-Mill/G0876

    Pretty scant details for a $25k purchase. Both out of stock...

  6. #6
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    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    What are the specs on the skyfire and what was the price?

    Grizzly has a pretty good reputation with good customer support. I would hope this would parlay into these machines as well.
    Hi, I wouldn't be classing the Skyfire SVM-0 as a production mill by any stretch of the image but it can be used for production if the parts are within the work envelope and the feeds and speeds are not blisteringly out of this World.

    I would hesitate to class it as a hobby mill as the specs are rated for a full CNC mill from the ground up not as a retrofit manual mill......the price and specs for the basic model are currently in their on line catalogue.....mine dates back to 2013.

    Judging by your last post I think you want something more of an industrial nature and must expect to pay the price accordingly.

    I would say that a mill with an ISO30 spindle is the way to go...….mine, due to it's smaller design, has an ISO20 spindle and the tool holders are harder to find at a cheap price.

    I opted for the ISO20 spindle as it gave me interchangeable tooling, even though manually applied, and a power drawbar capability as opposed to the original design for the basic mill that only had the ER32 chuck spindle end.

    In addition it also has a change over to a high speed spindle capability by way of the split head casting.
    Ian.

  7. #7

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    I highly doubt it's worth comparing a haas against a chinese machine . I never found the hass machines to be all that rigid , but I'd be willing to bet that the mini mill will be able to handle heavier cuts with better precision . Also haas will likely be around for at least 10 more yrs , that chinese mill will be an orphan before then , with no support and no where to get parts .
    One thing I've found with anything from china is that press fit means hammer the hell out of a pin til it fits . The quality of assembly and engineering of the haas will likely put one of those to shame .

    Something to take into consideration is that China is building this stuff and exporting it , they aren't using these machines . Instead a lot of the major outfits are massively back ordered due to the fact they can not keep up to China's demand for quality machinery

  8. #8

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I highly doubt it's worth comparing a haas against a chinese machine . I never found the hass machines to be all that rigid , but I'd be willing to bet that the mini mill will be able to handle heavier cuts with better precision . Also haas will likely be around for at least 10 more yrs , that chinese mill will be an orphan before then , with no support and no where to get parts .
    One thing I've found with anything from china is that press fit means hammer the hell out of a pin til it fits . The quality of assembly and engineering of the haas will likely put one of those to shame .

    Something to take into consideration is that China is building this stuff and exporting it , they aren't using these machines . Instead a lot of the major outfits are massively back ordered due to the fact they can not keep up to China's demand for quality machinery
    I'm not sure why you wouldn't compare? Grizzly has a great reputation especially among wood workers, assuming this carries over to the CNC mills I wouldn't hesitate to try them out. Also, the Siemens control is known to be a decent control. Given that's it's a drastically less costly machine than the Haas there certainly is some room for give and take. Depending on the needs of manufacture, it seems there is reason to consider both. I for example don't need something quite like the Haas, it's too much machine. The Tormach always seemed a reasonable fit, but I never cared for TTS and the Tormach's by all measures are slow. Hell, I rapid my G0704 conversion at 180ipm.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think the Grizzly is anywhere near the machine the Haas is, and I'm certain there are machines better than the Haas even, but when considering the type and volume of machining I find that this Grizzly is certainly competitive with the Tormach (Chinese) machines. This of course is assuming it performs as described.

    Mostly, I just found it interesting that there is a low cost production type machine that is now competing with the Tormach. Especially in light of there new MX machines which will probably be priced very closely to the Grizzly units.

  9. #9

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Grizzly is rebranded chinese machines x2 x3 g0704 etc are all rebranded by various North American companies . Companies like haas , mori seiki , enshu etc build and support their machinery , any replacement parts or retrofitting that they supply will plop right into place . Rebrand companies rely on the chinese factories that supply the machines . Go to alibaba , the same machine will appear under various companies / manufacturers . There are hundreds or thousands of factories making the same products , and the quality will vary from factory to factory

    I've done a lot of rework for companies who thought they'd save a buck by outsourcing to china , theres no rhyme or reason to the mess they can create . A company like tormach is building their machines in china as well , but they keep making the same machines and they obviously have good quality control , they aren't rebrands . Nobody knows where the grizzly's come from other than one of a multitude of factories in china .

    spec-wise on paper , years ago hyudia pony specs likely matched a toyota tercel , ponies were pretty much all crushed within 5 years vs tercels which some are still running on the streets today

  10. #10
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    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Correct me if I'm wrong but if by some stroke of a pen a POTUS decided to ban the import of all foreign built machinery where the same machine or type was made in the 'States, then there would be a whole lot of empty home workshops that would have to resort to either going into debt big time for a home grown hobby machine or buying up some antiquated piece of yesterdays offerings and modifying it.

    If you consider that most machinery by design is obsolete within 5 years or 10 at the most, then what you buy today is already out of date by the time it was conceived and got to the retail outlets.

    I don't think the Chinese stuff is made to be or intended to be top of the range but it does sell and in enormous quantities and that's not just by price alone.

    It all comes down to economics...….if you want to supply the engineering industry with machinery that doesn't break the bank, then you would have to work for less wages and do the industry a favour and the country at the same time...………….if the home grown price for a CNC mill to fit into the small to light industry requirements is needed then I think a price line of US$20,000 without any tooling or extras would be about right......going to US$30,000 would probably be the final figure once the tooling and software were acquired.

    I personally don't subscribe to making my own hamburgers when Makkers is just down the road.....OK, so that's not in China, but as someone else is doing it better why bother to get the stove dirty.
    Ian.

  11. #11
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    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Grizzly is rebranded chinese machines x2 x3 g0704 etc are all rebranded by various North American companies . Companies like haas , mori seiki , enshu etc build and support their machinery , any replacement parts or retrofitting that they supply will plop right into place . Rebrand companies rely on the chinese factories that supply the machines . Go to alibaba , the same machine will appear under various companies / manufacturers . There are hundreds or thousands of factories making the same products , and the quality will vary from factory to factory

    I've done a lot of rework for companies who thought they'd save a buck by outsourcing to china , theres no rhyme or reason to the mess they can create . A company like tormach is building their machines in china as well , but they keep making the same machines and they obviously have good quality control , they aren't rebrands . Nobody knows where the grizzly's come from other than one of a multitude of factories in china .

    spec-wise on paper , years ago hyudia pony specs likely matched a toyota tercel , ponies were pretty much all crushed within 5 years vs tercels which some are still running on the streets today
    When I was in the trade, before retirement, the firm I worked for outsourced a heap of their components to China, Taiwan etc.....anything that was out of tolerance was rejected....that is with a batch sampling and a 1% reject rate...…..after that the entire order was rejected.

    As a gauge room inspector I rejected some of the tooling produced by our most prestigious preferred supplier and they soon learned to be more careful with their reading of the drawings.

    If any company outsources their components then they must apply the same rule that if it's not to drawing it's rejected and not paid for.....where's the problem?
    Ian.

  12. #12

    Re: New Grizzly Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post

    If any company outsources their components then they must apply the same rule that if it's not to drawing it's rejected and not paid for.....where's the problem?
    Ian.
    Grizzly isn't outsourcing , they are buying and rebranding , I highly doubt they are going through every single machine to ensure that the quality is consistent . i look at it this way . i can buy one of those questionable chinese mills or buy a lower end haas . Even if I hadn't work with haas in the past I'd still go for the haas because I know that they are an established machine manufacturer who has proven their stance in the market .
    we are talking 30k , it's not a lot of money in the big scheme of things but to each his own i suppose , I'd just stick with the safer bet myself

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