[deji]

Hey all. I was wondering if I could get some input about something I have been thinking about lately.

I started college with the intent to transfer into a university. Computer science or computer engineering would have been the major. After a semester, I decided to take a semester of all machining classes. This way, I can have a better job while I go to school.

Took a manual machining class, cnc setup class, and a manual cnc programming class. The thing is, I kind of like it. Thinking of doing the whole program.

The one drawback that is constantly in my mind is the future. I am only in my 20's. Aren't these jobs all getting moved to other countries? When I look at the job ads now, there are tons. What about in 20 years?

I have no idea who to ask. Figured this place would be perfect. For all you older guys that have been doing this for many years. Your son just graduated high school. Even though he is a computer whiz, he says forget computers, I want to be a machinist. Would you tell him he is making a good choice? Or would you convince him out of it, reminding him that he will always have a high paying job available with a degree in computers?

Thanks all. Feel free to add any input. And no, I am not going to decide my future based on what a stranger tells me over the internet. Just want to get some input from people that have been in this trade for a while and know what should be expected for the future.

Thanks again.

[Geof]

...Your son just graduated high school. Even though he is a computer whiz, he says forget computers, I want to be a machinist....

Can't happen...forgetting computers to become a machinist; computers are an integral part of machining now. A competent Machinist these days should know all the old stuff such as basic metallurgy, material properties, tooling, etc, etc, for a list that goes on for many lines. Maybe some of it such as how to fix a leather flat-belt drive or Babbit a bearing can be omitted, however, today's, and tomorrow's Machinist also needs to know about computers, some electronics, electric motor control, servo systems, etc, etc.

Which means that a competent Machinist can move into just about any of the three basic divisions of industry; making things somebody else designed, fixing things somebody else made or designing things for other people to make.

It also means that in addition to getting practical hands-on training in metalworking you also need to get diploma or degree level education maybe in more than one field. What it boils down to is that if you have the ability and determination to become a fully rounded competent Machinist you have the ability to do almosy anything. So why worry that a job may not be available in the trade in 20 years, you will just do something else.

[Zumba]

Get the computer degree and don't look back. Stay on track and you'll be glad you did a few years from now. Focus on getting into a good university and doing well at the university. Don't switch majors. The point is to keep your options open by getting a degree that gives you flexibility. A CS/CE/EE degree from a good university does just that. At the same time, you should definitely continue to learn about machining on your own.

Success revolves around one-upping your competition... always has, always will (unless commies take over). Getting an engineering degree is a great start. Going to a votech school would likely put you at a disadvantage to everyone with a university degree. In your situation, it would also nudge you into a rut of doing things "the easy way". Your life will be full of challenges... start off strong by following through with the original plan.

[Geof]

....Going to a votech school would likely put you at a disadvantage to everyone with a university degree....

But going to votech, working for a while and then getting the university degree puts you at a distinct advantage over the pinheads who go straight to university and do not know anything real.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

deji, I agree with Geof but I'm prejudiced. Thats what I did mmmany years ago. Go for it all. Good luck.

[Geof]

deji, I agree with Geof but I'm prejudiced. Thats what I did mmmany years ago. Go for it all. Good luck.

That is not prejudice that is just good common sense.

[Zumba]

Geof, I agree with what you say but I would change the order to university first, votech second. Being the "old guy" in undergrad affects your social life.

[Geof]

Geof, I agree with what you say but I would change the order to university first, votech second. Being the "old guy" in undergrad affects your social life.

Precisely! I have the unconventional view that a university is an educational experience not a social experience. I have met too many people with degrees who had a great time at university and learnt SFA.

There is a distinct advantage being the old guy; it is easy to ace all the exams and walk away with the scholarship awards because all the young nitwits blow their brains out on booze and partying.

[CarbideBob]

Stay in school, get a 4 year degree in CPS/ME, and learn how to design and build CNC machines and robots. Then you get to play with computers and machines . Right or wrong, that piece of paper on the wall makes a big difference when looking for a job.
Bob

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

I like what one old prof. said, "This is a place to learn how to learn. The best thing we do is keep you out of the weather. Now, while your are here, try to open your minds so that when you leave, you will be able to learn from those who DO KNOW."

[Runner4404spd]

i figured i'd chime in here... i have a bachelors in mech engineering and a masters in mech engineering. i am 29 now and going back to vocational school to learn how to cnc parts and actually make things. the university degree is indispensible. if nothing else it has opened up a world of oppurtunity for me that has allowed me to buy my own equipment and open a shop in the near future, without worrying whether or not i can still put food on the table or pay me heating bill.

machine shops will always be around the states. some stuff will be off shored but other stuff will stay in house. The only thing to watch out for with a computer degree is that most people expect to make a ton of money wiht a computer degree and thats really not the case. you need to do what makes you happy.

[Shotout]

My opinion for what it is worth to you.

I graduated from votech almost one year ago and completed my CNC spec last Dec. My area has a Miller Brewing, Procter and Gamble as well as a Cooper Tire factory. We have untold small processing plants for peanuts, peanut products and pecans. We have numerous small businesses manufacturing specility products that are marketed internationally thanks to the internet. Also we have a ton of businesses that need machine work for repair of obsoleted parts, manufacture of modifications to equipment etc. The vast majority of parts we are making would be extremely cost prohibitive to ship internationally, and what happens on the prototype assemblies we build when something isn't right on the design end? How fast can a change order be implimented and how quick can a part that won't work be remade to the new dimensions and delivered from China?

Long story short delivered a set of assy to a local factor, someone goofed on a clearance and smashed the assy when they fired it up. Old one wouldn't work anymore since new brackets had been welded on. I went in at 3am to make a new, better designed part for the undamaged assy and we had a PO for another complete one with the changes. What if that had been sent to China?

Don't forget the defense industy either. While in school instead of projects I wrote, proofed and fine tuned programs for my instructor. He has a nice sideline making parts for F-22 at a base here in GA, mostly tool kits and test insturments, but some update parts as well. Can't see that going overseas either. My point is that that even as China improves it's quality control a machinist with current skills will still demand a good wage well into the future in all walks of manufacturing.

I also agree with Geoff converning continuing regular college classes after completing your CNC program. I start back to college later this year and am looking forward to it. It shows prospective employers that you are intellegent, focused, interested in self improvement, can continue to learn and all that translates into business as a better employee with a better wage. Plus it is fun to learn new stuff

Keep in mind I was suppose to be a mechanical engineer at one time, had the grades and the SATs to become a Rambling Wreck from GA Tech. Life got a little complicated and best laid plans and all. Even with a couple of minor regrets I wouldn't trade the life I'm building for my wife, my soon to be born daughter and myself for an alternitive future that I probably wouldn't have gotten near the satisfaction out of as I am getting out of learning this trade.

Scott, who has had more fun than a pedigreed pup.

[springlakecnc]

Hi Deji,

I'm 53 yrs old and have 3 sons, 2 still teens, so i think alot about a young mans future.

Manufacturing has become so competitive, in most cases we can't compete in the USA. By the time you get set up in an industrial park, with all the required things, you are out of buisness before you get started. Manufactures in Michigan are going out of business at such a rate, its unreal.

Go to the website "Michigan works", ran by the state of Michigan, and pick a big city, like Grand Rapids, and search for "cnc" jobs, and pay attention to the wages posted. As you will see, it is hard to find a cnc programming job that pays over $13.00 per hour. What a kick in the nuts! 6 years ago, a cnc programmer got $20 plus.

You can get into anything at your age, think real hard.

Whatever you end up doing, get into something that people from other countries can't compete with you in, as you have to live in the USA, and I agree about getting a degree in something, but anything to do with manufacturing?????, Its my life, but I wonder if its a young American man's future.

Good Luck,
Buck Case,
Spring Lake cnc llc

[NC_jimbo]

Stay in school and get the piece of paper. You'll never starve with that. Use your years in school to find another 3-5 folks who want to start a business straight out of school. You've all learned how to live on pizza and beer for months on end and have a tolerance for crappy apartments. Thats the most important skill in the objective of trying to score big in the next few years. Avoid at all cost in joining a large corporation where you'll be looking over your shoulder for the next 40 years as the corporate beancounters try to offshore your job.

Better alternative? Work at something you love to do (hopefully it's something hard to offshore [like face2face service]) and learn to live on the money you make.

To sum it all up, go for the jackpot or lower your expectations. Or maybe move to Canada (or Europe) and live off the social net.

[contractdesign]

Hi; I'm 52w years old, busted my back to get my BSME at night while working full time as a design engineer. I have 32 years experience working for machine building companies and manufacturing companies. I started my own machine design / building company about 12 years ago. I love what I do. It's hard sometimes, and yes I feel like I'm working in a dying industry since all of my customers are manufacturing companies. But you know what? It is a personal mission of mine to keep on plugging. I'v always have been the type of personality to go left when the masses go right. Things do not always go in the direction they seem they would probable go, and if it does then it is short lived and highly competiteve. I believe now that a BSME is the equivalent to a degree in liberal arts that was popular in the 70's, and who knows, with everyone going into computers, a degree in IT could help you but eventually become noithing more than a basic requirement. My point is, whatever you go into, keep an open mind, and constantly grow. A degree in IT or a BSME is a good starting point, but you have to continue to grow. My senior year college professor told me "do not worry about the money, do what you enjoy" At the time I thought he was crazy, but am now convinced he was right.

[deji]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess mechanical engineering is the degree to get in this trade? I hear that degree mentioned a lot. One of my teachers was a mechanical engineer. One of the kids in my class had a mechanical engineering degree, from another country. This one kid worked in a small shop and the owner was a mechanical engineer. Lots of people that replied in this thread are mechanical engineers as well.

A major in computer engineering and minor in mechanical engineering would be cool. Might as well toss in an associate degree in machine tool and another in cnc programming. Yeah right, I would be going to school for the rest of my life. A computer engineering or computer science degree from the school I want to go to (university of IL at chicago) is already 128 hours so don't need a minor. I think a minor is only an extra 20 hours, so would be attainable. I will have to look into it.

There are definitely some machining classes that I want to take regardless of what I do. Taking cnc setup 2 this summer. Its summer only, and my original plan was to take these classes to get a cnc job. Will see what I can get after this class. Cnc guys get paid pretty well out here. Machine shop 2, shop 1 was really cool. They gave us a lot of material, but barely anything compared to what you need to know. Welding - always wanted to learn to weld. Manufacturing processes, and metallurgy. 2 classes that will do me good and teach a lot of things that are good to know.

I was just looking at the college book, after taking all the classes mentioned above, and the classes I took, I will be only 5 classes from the tool trades degree. Oh well, I will figure it out.

Thanks again for the replies. Definitely re-assured me that getting a 4 year degree is mandatory.

[deji]

Hey all. Wonder if anyone remembers me? Its kinda funny to read what I wrote and my thoughts 6 months ago.

This semester was a total waste. Went part-time and took math, english and philosophy classes. Decided next semester going full time for CNC. Honestly, it's what interests me the most and what I can see myself doing the most.

And partially because its a different direction from the people around me. One of my friends told me the other day that only people that can't speak english do this kind of work. Yet he doesn't know basic algebra, let alone the basic trig needed to do this work. I wanted to knock his lights out.

So pretty psyched. Get to take some cool classes next semester. I miss reading this website too

[sbalder]

The only way to live is to chart the best course for you in this life. I was a sophomore in college when I decided to become an auto mechanic. My parents threw me out of the house! It turns out I earned a great living as a technician for 6 years, completed my MBA and have worked for a car manufacturer straddling business and technical jobs and being thankful for all the good things in my life. There are too many people working in banking, insurance, and IT that don't have a clue how to think and consume far more than they produce.

Good luck to you!

[Fremont Dave]

If you enjoy both do both! Work part time or alternate between work and school. I was a drafter/designer at 23 and put myself through working only in the summers. The variation made for some of the best days of my life. I also got hooked on cnc in college. I worked for 17 years as an engineer before I had the hair to quit, buy a machining center and start a consulting firm where all the engineers are taught to cut parts so they can design properly for our clients. It's a blast and I'm finding there's a need for people who can wear both hats. I firmly believe machinists and technicians make the best engineers however too few make it through school. The golden handcuffs from a good job like machining allow people to start a family and buy a house but that makes it tough to go back to school. Don't think you won't be spared in engineering either. It is increasingly being outsourced, especially software. If you want to be safe, plan well, bust your tail and learn the things few others are willing to learn. Good Luck!

[deji]

Thanks for the replies.

Not sure what I'm going to do. Going to school full time right now and all the classes are in the cnc programming curriculum.

Not working, but looking for something on the weekends at a restaurant or something. Would love a part time job in a shop but school schedule is so screwy that 1 weekday and weekends are my only free time.

Then will be taking an intersession class between the spring and summer, which will be some elective like history. Then for summer will be taking a cnc class that is only offered in summer, and a math class. So working is still out of the question during all of this, except for something on the weekends.

Then after the summer semester I will have a basic machining cert, cnc operator cert, and 1 class away from the operator/programmer cert, which will be offered next spring.

After the summer semester is over, I want to work full time and go to school part time. But part time for what? Learn more about machining, or be happy with the certs and work on transferring.

I'll figure it out eventually I guess. But having a lot of fun this semester. Learning tons. There is so much to learn in this trade.

Just hope I will be qualified for a decent paying job. And won't get stuck in some corner pushing a button.