[djcregan]

Hi
Just took delivery of our 3rd machine and have the above error after spindle has only operated from cold around 2 minutes. Never had this on previous machines and actually I know for fact that my first machine the sensor was never wired.
Anyone had any experience of this. I’m thinking of disabling it through syntec controller but don’t know how.
As always any help is appreciated.
P.s omni are on new year holiday but want to solve ASAP.


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[Frankmali17]

Did you try to get help from OMNI?
Whad did they say?

[djcregan]

Still discussing it with them, they say they are waiting answer from syntec which is delayed due to China’s new year. I don’t understand why it’s a thing to do with syntec but we shall see.

Here is my latest report to them:
“I have carried out some further tests on the new spindle (machine 3) which included using a thermal imaging camera to record the spindle temperature, our findings as follows.

Spindle running @ 20000rpm no load
Highest temperature of spindle is 24 degrees c and does not increase with time.

Spindle running @12000 rpm no load
Temperature increase and overheat signal is initiated within 3 minutes, temperature recorded is 24 degrees c (overheat signal is initiated before further heat is conducted into t he spindle).

Spindle running @ 14000rpm no load
After 20 minutes spindle is still running but temperature has climbed to 40 degrees c. After 25 minutes Spindle speed was increased to 20000rpm and temperature reading taken at 45 minties found to be 29 degrees c.

Conclusion
Spindle speed effects the spindle temperature, the slower the speed the more rapid is the rise in temperature.
At 12000rpm the spindle thermistor signals to the controller that temperature is too hot within only a 2-3 minutes.
At 14000rpm the spindle will run under no load constantly but temperature at 25 minutes is 40 degrees and may still climb further.
At 2000rpm the spindle will run without temperature increase once temperature reaches approx 24 degrees.

Machine 2 running constantly under load is approximately 18 deg c
Machine 1 is similar

So in essence the spindle cannot be used for spindle speeds of 12000 Rpm or less. “




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[mactec54]

Still discussing it with them, they say they are waiting answer from syntec which is delayed due to China’s new year. I don’t understand why it’s a thing to do with syntec but we shall see.

Here is my latest report to them:
“I have carried out some further tests on the new spindle (machine 3) which included using a thermal imaging camera to record the spindle temperature, our findings as follows.

Spindle running @ 20000rpm no load
Highest temperature of spindle is 24 degrees c and does not increase with time.

Spindle running @12000 rpm no load
Temperature increase and overheat signal is initiated within 3 minutes, temperature recorded is 24 degrees c (overheat signal is initiated before further heat is conducted into t he spindle).

Spindle running @ 14000rpm no load
After 20 minutes spindle is still running but temperature has climbed to 40 degrees c. After 25 minutes Spindle speed was increased to 20000rpm and temperature reading taken at 45 minties found to be 29 degrees c.

Conclusion
Spindle speed effects the spindle temperature, the slower the speed the more rapid is the rise in temperature.
At 12000rpm the spindle thermistor signals to the controller that temperature is too hot within only a 2-3 minutes.
At 14000rpm the spindle will run under no load constantly but temperature at 25 minutes is 40 degrees and may still climb further.
At 2000rpm the spindle will run without temperature increase once temperature reaches approx 24 degrees.

Machine 2 running constantly under load is approximately 18 deg c
Machine 1 is similar

So in essence the spindle cannot be used for spindle speeds of 12000 Rpm or less. “




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Is the spindle air cooled and 24,000 RPM check the manufacture of the spindle to see what there minimum speed is different manufactures have different minimum speeds, there could be some Parameters set wrong also in the VFD Drive

What is the VFD Drive spec's and the Spindle spec's

[djcregan]

It’s water cooled.
I’ve took ohm readings as well, the thermistor is basically telling the controller that the temperature is too hot.

Here is my previous observation report to Omni:

“Overheating spindle

As discussed Previously, please be informed that we *have installed the new omni 1325 ATC and as we previously informed by WhatsApp on Jan 29 and *have the following problem.

The alarm reference R44.7 spindle overheat alarm. This alarm is activated in a very short time after the spindle is operated (only around 2 minutes)

We can confirm that water cooling is fully operational and has good flow rate. We are happy to send you video of this bit how you can accept our word.

We have taken some readings from the spindle THERMISTOR and these are shown on the following attached photographs:

New machine before starting spindle
Photograph - “New machine before start”
Reading is 56ohms

New machine after *spindle has been posted at 8000 rpm for 3 minutes.
Photograph - “New machine @ 3 mins run time”
Reading is 102.8K ohms

According to the Hanqi spindle data sheet this reading suggests it is *outside that which is allowed for the safe working of the spindle ?

Due to the high reading we decided to compare it with one of our existing machines which have exactly the same spindle fitted. We therefore took a reading of the spindle which had been operating for around 30 minutes.
Photograph - “First machine operating ok” Reading is 84.6 ohms

So from these observations it seems that there is some fault with the new machine spindle.

Please could you ask your technical department to investigate our findings and give us a quick solution as we currently have a brand new machine that we cannot use.”

The reference to the “First machine” is my oldest machine as I now have three.




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[mactec54]

It’s water cooled.
I’ve took ohm readings as well, the thermistor is basically telling the controller that the temperature is too hot.

Here is my previous observation report to Omni:

“Overheating spindle

As discussed Previously, please be informed that we *have installed the new omni 1325 ATC and as we previously informed by WhatsApp on Jan 29 and *have the following problem.

The alarm reference R44.7 spindle overheat alarm. This alarm is activated in a very short time after the spindle is operated (only around 2 minutes)

We can confirm that water cooling is fully operational and has good flow rate. We are happy to send you video of this bit how you can accept our word.

We have taken some readings from the spindle THERMISTOR and these are shown on the following attached photographs:

New machine before starting spindle
Photograph - “New machine before start”
Reading is 56ohms

New machine after *spindle has been posted at 8000 rpm for 3 minutes.
Photograph - “New machine @ 3 mins run time”
Reading is 102.8K ohms

According to the Hanqi spindle data sheet this reading suggests it is *outside that which is allowed for the safe working of the spindle ?

Due to the high reading we decided to compare it with one of our existing machines which have exactly the same spindle fitted. We therefore took a reading of the spindle which had been operating for around 30 minutes.
Photograph - “First machine operating ok” Reading is 84.6 ohms

So from these observations it seems that there is some fault with the new machine spindle.

Please could you ask your technical department to investigate our findings and give us a quick solution as we currently have a brand new machine that we cannot use.”

The reference to the “First machine” is my oldest machine as I now have three.




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This could be a spindle problem, But can also be an incorrect Parameters set in the VFD Drive, what VFD Drive do you have

[djcregan]

This one



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[mactec54]

This one



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The VFD Drive drive looks like a Fuling if it is what model # and your spindle spec's

Voltage=
Hz=
Amps=
RPM=

[djcregan]

Here is the spindle spec:
https://drive.google.com/a/cregancon...w?usp=drivesdk

Photo of vfd model attached, it’s Fuling.


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[mactec54]

Here is the spindle spec:
https://drive.google.com/a/cregancon...w?usp=drivesdk

Photo of vfd model attached, it’s Fuling.


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The spindle says it has an operating temperature of 110C that more than I would of though so 45C would not be a problem, I will do a list of Parameters for you so you can check to see what the have installed

The temperature rating seem a little high, the normal would be 60C to 70C for any normal motor bearings

[mactec54]

Here is the spindle spec:
https://drive.google.com/a/cregancon...w?usp=drivesdk

Photo of vfd model attached, it’s Fuling.


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You sure this spindle is the same as what your other machine has as these same Spindles come in 2 Pole which is 400Hz and 4 pole 800Hz, your new one is 4 Pole

[djcregan]

Hi
Firstly the data sheet I posted I’ve had prior to the new machine arriving. I’m pretty sure they are all the same. Not sure how I would check to be honest. I can double check in the morning as I’m home now.


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[mactec54]

Hi
Firstly the data sheet I posted I’ve had prior to the new machine arriving. I’m pretty sure they are all the same. Not sure how I would check to be honest. I can double check in the morning as I’m home now.


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It is normally etched on the body, and could be under where the are clamped there would be no other way to tell, apart from seeing what they have set for these parameters, this would also tell what spindle you have if they have been set correct

F0.04=
F0.05=
F0.07=

[Frankmali17]

When I had a problem with my Genuine HSD 9KW ATC spindle.. being sluggish and slow..
I found the factory wired it for 380V 3 phase and not 220V 3 phase..

I swapped the wiring around and it was good at that point.

Maybe that could be something?

[mactec54]

When I had a problem with my Genuine HSD 9KW ATC spindle.. being sluggish and slow..
I found the factory wired it for 380V 3 phase and not 220V 3 phase..

I swapped the wiring around and it was good at that point.

Maybe that could be something?

Something worth looking at, but that wiring change would of been in your spindle he does not have that choice with his spindle, it is not dual voltage

The only thing that could do this with his system is the VFD Drive if it was rated for 380v then he would have to change the whole VFD Drive for a 240v rated drive

[djcregan]

Maybe it’s just a faulty spindle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, it’s now running all day long at 20000rpm

[mactec54]

Maybe it’s just a faulty spindle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, it’s now running all day long at 20000rpm

Looking at the fan it is of poor design to cool a spindle like this

This Spindle is most likely one that has a high minimum speed because of the poor air flow at low RPM, it is quite common for air cooled spindles like this to have cooling problems at lower speeds, I don't believe that the VFD Drive is ideal also, if the Voltage to Hz ratio is off as well, this will cause over heating also, having a VFD Drive like this which is auto ranging the Voltage/Hz ratio, this is software controlled and if it is off, you can't change anything to correct it in these VFD drives

You will probably find that it runs ok at 18,000RPM also but will get hotter than at 20,000RPM

Did you connect you Ground wire

[djcregan]

It’s a water cooled spindle.


I have carried out some further tests on the new spindle (machine 3) which included using a thermal imaging camera to record the spindle temperature, our findings as follows.

Spindle running @ 20000rpm no load
Highest temperature of spindle is 24 degrees c and does not increase with time.

Spindle running @12000 rpm no load
Temperature increase and overheat signal is initiated within 3 minutes, temperature recorded is 24 degrees c (overheat signal is initiated before further heat is conducted into t he spindle).

Spindle running @ 14000rpm no load
After 20 minutes spindle is still running but temperature has climbed to 40 degrees c. After 25 minutes Spindle speed was increased to 20000rpm and temperature reading taken at 45 minties found to be 29 degrees c.

Conclusion
Spindle speed effects the spindle temperature, the slower the speed the more rapid is the rise in temperature.
At 12000rpm the spindle thermistor signals to the controller that temperature is too hot within only a 2-3 minutes.
At 14000rpm the spindle will run under no load constantly but temperature at 25 minutes is 40 degrees and may still climb further.
At 2000rpm the spindle will run without temperature increase once temperature reaches approx 24 degrees.

Machine 2 running constantly under load is approximately 18 deg c
Machine 1 is similar

So in essence the spindle cannot be used for spindle speeds of 12000 Rpm or less.

[mactec54]

It’s a water cooled spindle.


I have carried out some further tests on the new spindle (machine 3) which included using a thermal imaging camera to record the spindle temperature, our findings as follows.

Spindle running @ 20000rpm no load
Highest temperature of spindle is 24 degrees c and does not increase with time.

Spindle running @12000 rpm no load
Temperature increase and overheat signal is initiated within 3 minutes, temperature recorded is 24 degrees c (overheat signal is initiated before further heat is conducted into t he spindle).

Spindle running @ 14000rpm no load
After 20 minutes spindle is still running but temperature has climbed to 40 degrees c. After 25 minutes Spindle speed was increased to 20000rpm and temperature reading taken at 45 minties found to be 29 degrees c.

Conclusion
Spindle speed effects the spindle temperature, the slower the speed the more rapid is the rise in temperature.
At 12000rpm the spindle thermistor signals to the controller that temperature is too hot within only a 2-3 minutes.
At 14000rpm the spindle will run under no load constantly but temperature at 25 minutes is 40 degrees and may still climb further.
At 2000rpm the spindle will run without temperature increase once temperature reaches approx 24 degrees.

Machine 2 running constantly under load is approximately 18 deg c
Machine 1 is similar

So in essence the spindle cannot be used for spindle speeds of 12000 Rpm or less.

The temperature increase at lower speeds could indicate that the current draw is to high at those speeds, which means the Voltage to Hz ratio is not correct from the VFD Drive, you could measure this if you have a high quality meter that can do this, a clip on would work best Fluke have the best meters for reading the VFD output, so as a test you could read the Voltage and amps of the output to the spindle if the amps go up as you decrease the speed then this is most likely where the problem is

[djcregan]

Yes I tend to lean towards this possible problem. Will investigate and report back.
Mt


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