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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > SprutCAM > SprutCAM 12 soon
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  1. #25
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    I'm finding the WCS and lathe coordinate system very confusing. For some reason, SC (all versions so far as I know) insist that the lathe Z (spindle) axis be aligned along the WCS X axis. Why on earth would they do that? Also the revisions to the tool library seem to insist on changing units from inch to mm, so that a lathe tool defined with a 5" long tool holder becomes 5 mm long.

  2. #26
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    I'm finding the WCS and lathe coordinate system very confusing. For some reason, SC (all versions so far as I know) insist that the lathe Z (spindle) axis be aligned along the WCS X axis. Why on earth would they do that? Also the revisions to the tool library seem to insist on changing units from inch to mm, so that a lathe tool defined with a 5" long tool holder becomes 5 mm long.
    When you look at the uber complex multi spindle, multi tool, multi axis machines with live tooling the software supports. I can kind of see why it has some different initial machine WCS. I would think you could set the program to operate more normal with say PP or like other cam programs. If this is part of the machine definition module then your stuck. "no access to this module". I would probably have little problem adapting to the X axis issue as long as the code generates correctly. WCS and part orientation is straight forward to set as desired in cad program on the model and then sent to cam. This method works well for one WCS/UCS like a sbl15 would use, then if more are require like a mill then (yoyo) your on your own.

    The conversion problem is one that bites. Data set problems like this cause real long term headaches for users unless fixed.

  3. #27
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    When you look at the uber complex multi spindle, multi tool, multi axis machines with live tooling the software supports. I can kind of see why it has some different initial machine WCS. I would think you could set the program to operate more normal with say PP or like other cam programs. If this is part of the machine definition module then your stuck. "no access to this module". I would probably have little problem adapting to the X axis issue as long as the code generates correctly. WCS and part orientation is straight forward to set as desired in cad program on the model and then sent to cam. This method works well for one WCS/UCS like a sbl15 would use, then if more are require like a mill then (yoyo) your on your own.

    The conversion problem is one that bites. Data set problems like this cause real long term headaches for users unless fixed.
    I'm not familiar with the world of options for turn machine tools, but so far as I know every CNC lathe made has the primary lathe axis defined as the Z-axis. If that's true, SprutCAM's definition makes no sense to me. On the other hand, I've started looking into MecSoft's Visual Turn and it looks like they do something similarly weird with axis orientation but at least explain in a tutorial how to deal with it. I'll dig into that a bit more and maybe it will help to understand SC's approach, or at least how to work around it.

    I'm pretty sure that SC has had unit problems (Imperial vs metric) for the last several versions. It can be dealt with, though constant vigilance is required.

  4. #28
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    WCS and part orientation is straight forward to set as desired in cad program on the model and then sent to cam. This method works well for one WCS/UCS like a sbl15 would use, then if more are require like a mill then (yoyo) your on your own.
    As long as you set the desired WCS location CORRECTLY in cad it works well Because its so easy to do this way its also easy to goof up. Somehow I set it a tiny amount offset and didn't notice until I made first part at the mill lol. Thought the day was going way to good. Back to the drawing board.

  5. #29
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    mountaindew,

    I've had no problems with SC and the WCS on mill projects, only with lathe projects and specifically with SC12. SC 11 seemed to work much better for me on lathe projects. I downloaded and installed the VisualCAM program and will see how that goes.

  6. #30
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    mountaindew,

    I've had no problems with SC and the WCS on mill projects, only with lathe projects and specifically with SC12. SC 11 seemed to work much better for me on lathe projects. I downloaded and installed the VisualCAM program and will see how that goes.
    Not good to upgrade and find the new version is more of a problem. Real close to buying a cnc lathe and I don't want to change and or learn Cam programs just to use it. The mill section of the program works well. Everyday I find or see different, better or faster way to setup operations and get results. Of course as long as I do everything right, hehe. I still get bit now and then and its silly because most the time I know what to check or what I did wrong.

  7. #31
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    It could just be me and a failure to grasp geometrical concepts. VisualCAM is also confusing me a bit, but they have much better tutorials. Jacob at SprutCAMAmerica was planning to do a tutorial or two soon. {Hint, hint}

  8. #32
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    It could just be me and a failure to grasp geometrical concepts. VisualCAM is also confusing me a bit, but they have much better tutorials. Jacob at SprutCAMAmerica was planning to do a tutorial or two soon. {Hint, hint}
    I updated the other day and noticed the program is more in line with help file. They made a bunch of changes to the tool system and Im trying to understand its overall method. They added tool name/info next to operation in tree, kind of handy. Looks like they are trying to make this a little less confusing and with more consistent use, edit, definition …………of tools. And not so willy nilly. Still hard to say what they are doing because they don't explain their tool crib/database methodology anywhere.

  9. #33
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Their are some bugs, but today I checked SC12 updater and see lots of things listed fixed, will install update and play with it, big big bug I found and reported was going from SC11.5 to SC12 and trying to edit some WCS on the individual folder or operations and clicking on the area to change them would cause SC to crash, and was repeatable, I stopped because I could not use it and went back to SC11.5, this has NOW been fixed!

    It takes time to update all of my systems with latest versions, SC is a bit slow and requires the dongle so I have to do it one machine at a time

    I see that project to sketch at least with SC11.5 file in SC12, causes circles that are broken almost always into 2 sections, the projection causes the center points to be off the tangent points ok, but this is strange, also the sketch mode the dimension units are massive, assuming scaling issue due to inch vs metric

    at least now I can edit the sketch dimensions, this is great for rough vs finish or for quick basic parts to machine, its far easier then the old drawing method, which still doesnt make sense to have drawing and sketch? they are different but I think eventually should be one

  10. #34
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    also, I do not see the check mark to use store tool numbers as the tool, which is how I do things, you can toggle that in the csv file


    SPRUTCAM TOOLS LIBRARY

    <HEAD SECTION>
    LIBNAME = Tools library.
    LIBVERSION = 6
    SECTIONSNUMBER = 1
    LIBUNITS = 0
    ISTOOLNUMBERDEFINE = 1
    LIBCOMMENTS = Library of the standard installation.
    <END HEAD SECTION>

    the bold red has to be a 1, if you do not want to use "store" tool numbers H's and your D values etc...

    Looked at the area where you can select your machine, and under the tab where you can see the tool lists their is a check mark option

  11. #35
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Right now I found another problem,. Running alibre cad with the add-on enabled.

    Opening a sc11.5 file in sc12 then trying to update model, it is red and even if pointed to right file does not want to import.

    If I delete the model I can import the model just fine, but you lose some of the wcs and operation faces selections etc...

    It's possible that this might be just a version incompatibility

    This might apply to other cad too.

  12. #36
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    Re: SprutCAM 12 soon

    Quote Originally Posted by drutort View Post
    also, I do not see the check mark to use store tool numbers as the tool, which is how I do things, you can toggle that in the csv file


    SPRUTCAM TOOLS LIBRARY

    <HEAD SECTION>
    LIBNAME = Tools library.
    LIBVERSION = 6
    SECTIONSNUMBER = 1
    LIBUNITS = 0
    ISTOOLNUMBERDEFINE = 1
    LIBCOMMENTS = Library of the standard installation.
    <END HEAD SECTION>

    the bold red has to be a 1, if you do not want to use "store" tool numbers H's and your D values etc...

    Looked at the area where you can select your machine, and under the tab where you can see the tool lists their is a check mark option

    How Sprutcam used tool numbers has always been annoying to me! In the past Tool ID and number # were the same or maybe not when stored in database but could be completely different with different parameters in a part program or in different operations even. "willy nilly data management" and time consuming to compare all the fields. Looks like now there are different text highlights to warn you of some differences. And a few options for data management and how to keep it better aligned and updated.
    I have used a 2 crib strategy for a while, with a very large master tool crib file. Then I pull from it to build and maintain tools in USE file with numbers that align with PP. Might be a little more straight forward to manage these files now.


    File import with WCS from Ironcad has always been one way. I did have to uninstall and reinstall plugin to get it working right. If I use a export file like iges then it will warn me of changes and allow update but no WCS on import.
    I send direct to cam from cad and there is no link back. Either way it does not retain or I cant trust it to retain links to features. So I end up repeating the job setup step for every operation.

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