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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    78

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Quote Originally Posted by ericks View Post
    Wow that is some dust extraction!!!
    Tried it out but doesn’t pick up dust flying off the other end of the spindle so not super effective.

    Going to 3D print a duct out of ABS that wraps around the spindle .. should be a fun Fusion 360 project


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    ericks Guest

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewwong2000 View Post
    Tried it out but doesn’t pick up dust flying off the other end of the spindle so not super effective.

    Going to 3D print a duct out of ABS that wraps around the spindle .. should be a fun Fusion 360 project


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I am also looking at making a dust shoe atm....but i only have a shop vac, will try and see. Good luck with your effort

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    When you go to large diameter hose like that you lose the velocity needed to pick up dust. I have a metal dust shoe off eBay. One end clamps around a 80mm spindle the other side I have reduced down from 4 inches to 2 inch shop vac hose size. It has a brush and snaps on and off with two clamps in 10 seconds. Zero dust in the air or on the table. Cost way less than $100, and it works.

    Dust collector is a Shop Vac with a mini cyclone setup and that cyclone setup was $100 or so.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  4. #24
    ericks Guest

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    When you go to large diameter hose like that you lose the velocity needed to pick up dust. I have a metal dust shoe off eBay. One end clamps around a 80mm spindle the other side I have reduced down from 4 inches to 2 inch shop vac hose size. It has a brush and snaps on and off with two clamps in 10 seconds. Zero dust in the air or on the table. Cost way less than $100, and it works.

    Dust collector is a Shop Vac with a mini cyclone setup and that cyclone setup was $100 or so.
    Wow...thanks for the advise

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    369

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    It doesnt make sense & hopefully someone that can explain it will chime in, but you get more vacuum / dust collection with the large hose. I think andrewwong2000's problem is he needs a brush to contain the dust. You can see the dust swirling around the brush until it gets to the vacuum hose. As soon as you reduce the diameter you loose the power / velocity / volume whatever you want to call it. If you are using a shop vac with a 2" hose you cannot go up to 4" but if you are using a harbor freight dust collector & keep it at 4" you have much more suction than if you reduce it down to 2". I would have ran 5" clean to the spindle if I didnt already have the 4 " flexable.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    To increase velocity the size should be reduced. The CFM will stay the same for that small diameter, over a short distance. If you leave it small all the way back you Will lose CFM because of fiction loss in the pipe. Flex is a big loss anyway, it should be hard pipe whenever you can run it. Turns as 90 degree and fittings are a loss. This is from a HVAC guy who used to design ductwork as part of his job. You can do whatever you want.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    369

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    You may be correct but why do all the industrial dust collection units use larger ducting? I agree that elbows & 90's reduce the flow, but I've had numerous people tell me to stay as big as possible as long as you can. The say it is opposite to water like I said I dont know but just what I've been told. I've also watched videos on you tube of people going from 2" - 2.5" to 4" if 2.5" is better I could have saved a lot of money.

    Also it should probably be mentioned that you should run metal duct work & ground the flexible hose to the metal. They claim sawdust is more flammable than gasoline. I tend to agree since when my son worked at a Fiberboard plant they were having fires all the time & it didnt take much to start them. I'm so glad he is out of there

    Gary

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    It's a little more complex than saying 4" is better than 2", or 2" is better than 4".
    You don't want a 2" hose ith a dust collector, and you don't want a 4" hose on a shopvac. Neither will work well.

    Imo, a shop vc is not ideal for two reasons.
    1) The noise will drive you crazy.
    2) They won't last long if you'll be running it for hours on end.


    With a dust collector, you do want to keep the duxt size as large as possible, for as long as possible, with minimal bends, and as littel flex hose as possible.
    I recommend a 2HP or larger dust collector.

    A good dust shoe with a brush is critical as well.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary-Wiant View Post
    You may be correct but why do all the industrial dust collection units use larger ducting? I agree that elbows & 90's reduce the flow, but I've had numerous people tell me to stay as big as possible as long as you can. The say it is opposite to water like I said I dont know but just what I've been told. I've also watched videos on you tube of people going from 2" - 2.5" to 4" if 2.5" is better I could have saved a lot of money.

    Also it should probably be mentioned that you should run metal duct work & ground the flexible hose to the metal. They claim sawdust is more flammable than gasoline. I tend to agree since when my son worked at a Fiberboard plant they were having fires all the time & it didnt take much to start them. I'm so glad he is out of there

    Gary
    Gary you missed my point for increased velocity to pull off the table or out of the shoe you need to reduce for a short distance. I said nothing about reducing the main line or home run to the collector. If you make the duct to big your wasting money on material. A 90 generally is equal to 20 feet of straight pipe, flex duct is terrible for loss. My wife hates it when I watch HGTV and see all the huge diameter flex duct used in some areas of the country for HVAC. Then they wonder why they do not get any air flow!!! Its good for a laugh. It takes a bit more skill to run sheetmetal duct but its compact and has smooth interior for great air flow.

    You increase velocity to get the air flow where you want it. Next time your in a large commercial building look for the air diffusers they use to direct air flow. Some have slot diffusers mounted high in the ceiling but thanks to velocity, throw and spread the air makes it down to the area needed.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    78

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Sorry folks there is a strip brush surround but not in that particular photo!

    The dust extractor is a 5hp 1500cfm cyclone.. i still have to wear hearing protection because of the spindle and dustie.

    The 6” hose sucks huge amounts of dust and chips normally, but the strip brush gets sucked into the pipe restricting it a bit and it’s just physics that the hose isn’t near enough to the cutter on the far side where MDF dust is being thrown off the cutter and blowing through the strip brush.

    There isn’t any real duct shape to deflect dust and chips, and optimise air flow with the flat profile dust hood.

    That’s why I want to try a 3d printed shape and will post updates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    You need a stiffer brush, and the brush should form a seal with the spoilboard. The purpose of the brush is to block the chips from flying away, so the vacuum can get them.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Andrew that dust collector is just for your router? My little Shop Vac with the 2 or 2.5 inch hose takes all my dust away even when doing MDF.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    369

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    WMGeorge - ok I see what you mean. I run 5" round duct to above my table then neck down to 4" but that was because my KentCNC shoe is 4"

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    78

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Andrew that dust collector is just for your router? My little Shop Vac with the 2 or 2.5 inch hose takes all my dust away even when doing MDF.
    My workshop has a central dust extraction system with blast gates.. maybe the fact I was surfacing the MDF with a 60mm wide bit (2mm depth of cut @12000rpm) has something to do with it ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Andrew that dust collector is just for your router? My little Shop Vac with the 2 or 2.5 inch hose takes all my dust away even when doing MDF.
    We have a dedicated 10HP dust collector with a 10" hose to the spindle. Depending on the operation, it gets between 50%-95% of the dust.

    I've seen roostertails of dust shoot out 10+ feet.

    The spindle is actually inside the hose, and is cooled by the airflow.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    369

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Gerry, that sounds awesome are you able to post any photos?

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    This doesn't really show much. It's a 15HP spindle inside the dust hose.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle.jpg  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    369

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    That's awesome it looks as though it has a pneumaticly controlled dust shoe to allow tool change & different sized bits

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Drag Chain Cable Management

    Yes, I think it's 4 air cylinders that give you 4 different brush heights, which are assigned to the tools. The brush lifts all the way up for tool changes, and then it's lowered to the specified height after the tool change.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

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