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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > CamSoft Products > Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Five years ago, I modified the knee to do tool length offsets on my Excello.
    here's the build thread
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/camso...74184-cnc.html

    I will repeat this on the vectrax

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    ARGH - a step backward.

    I lost the eight inputs on the second Galil ICM. Had two working, one was the estop input. Now all eight are dead. I double checked by booting up Galil WSDK. the first eight on 1900 ICM one are fine, second eight on 1900 ICM are all dead. FWIW, have +24 for signal, DC common connected to INCOM.

    I double checked manual, see attached pic, they are all opto isolated so 24 volt should be no problem.

    See anything wrong? What component is most likely zorched?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Capture.jpg  

  3. #23
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    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Walked away and took a summer vacation...

    When I got back on this, swapping cables indicated card trouble. OH BOY, don't want to call a Galil card dead. So I took the time to install multiboot and a second operating system on another hard drive. put Galil WSDK on it. Now just hit <ESC> in early boot and select the other drive to get Galil WSDK. I should have taken the time to do this on day one.

    IO shows up fine in Galil. Issue is software, if a Galil input number is not used in the .cbk the Camsoft control doesn't look for it. It is a touch flakey here, the inputs from the second 1900 icm fire inputio, inputs from the first do not. Anyway added a whole bunch of commands like:
    IF #24=1 THEN MESSAGE 24 IS 1
    to STARTUP.FIL for all 16 inputs and things are fine.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Worked on the acceleration issue. Its not perfect, but perfect can be the enemy of good enough. I grow and market for a living and harvest starts next week, so I will leave this for now and finish up the machine and put it to work making parts.

    Here's a pic of how she looks now. that's a 32" TV for monitor, got two keyboards. Can pull the wired one out for debug work and control programming. Most the time a wireless one sits on the rolling table with the other tucked out of the way.

    Right now, I'm about 80% done with all the features on the operator panel.

    The rotating switch in upper right on the panel is the BIG one. I call this the machine mode. It must be in RUN to run a CNC program. In the programming several things are set correctly for machine run. For the operator the CYCLE START pushbutton won't work unless in RUN mode. Also the MDI window won't open.

    The next mode is JOG. This enables the pushbuttons in the panel center. The middle button is "fast". Hold this in while pushing any direction and the machine jogs rapid. release it and it jogs slow. Camsoft does have programming command for jogging but it had a slight hesitation between touching a button and moving. As I am an official ANAL ENGINEER, I wrote a low level program for the Gali card (attached). This one responds immediately.

    The next five modes are the MPG or handwheel for each axis. Only the handwheel and the 1-10 switch work in this mode. 10 is for coarse handwheel => one click is 0.010" 1 is for fine handwheel, one click does 0.0005".

    IMHO, the above features REALLY IMPROVE setting up a job.

    The balance of the buttons on the control panel let the operator run the machine without using the mouse or keyboard. Its just nicer that way.

    I'll just mention a bit about the computer screen. The large black area in the upper left is the viewport, Camsoft's BEST feature. Load a program and you can visually see the toolpaths. The viewport can be zoomed and viewed from any angle.

    The dark blue area is the Gcode window, it displays gcodes while running. A HUGE feature of this area is the ability to send the operator any message of interest.

    Notice the red button in the machine is a green button on the screenshot. This is just a display of whether the machine is ready to run or in Estop.

    There are several lights that just tell limit switches, homed, etc. The grey boxes are user defined functions for the machine. For example, mouse click on the Preset X and a window pops up to enter the X value for the current part.

    The bottom area is just a view of the desktop. I have shortcuts to all the configuration files. For example I just programmed an ESTOP enable this morning. I cut the wire to the Estop power and ran it through a spare relay. Then added a simple command (#152=0) in shutdown.fil and another (#152=1) in startup.fil. Now Estop drops if the control is exited and won't enable until the control is up and running.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vctrax Mill.jpg   Capture.JPG  
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Re the post #8, re buzzing contactors, I went over a long time ago to 24vdc for not only control but all relay and contactor coils, the only time AC has the edge is at switch on time, after that, DC has the advantage.!
    The Old work horse Fanuc was a nice control, but expensive to maintain, I had a career of retrofitting and went with Fanuc initially, but they were too hard and expensive to work with. Ended up with Mitsubishi.
    For the Galil based systems, I did make my own HMI screens from kiosk style, touch screen Displays, many with the PC mounted behind them or used a panel mount touch screen and a Advantech PC on a card that fits in a slot.
    One manuf. that makes nice panel mount PC's is Maple Sytems.
    I also used industrial membrane covered keyboards that were impervious to oil, water etc.
    You most likely can sell the Fanuc on ebay to cover some costs.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    1195

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    You most likely can sell the Fanuc on ebay to cover some costs.
    There is no possibility we use old fanuc ac servo motors with non fanuc drivers ?.

  7. #27
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    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by asuratman View Post
    There is no possibility we use old fanuc ac servo motors with non fanuc drivers ?.
    The problem with Fanuc AC servo's is they use a proprietary method for commutation, I have removed the encoder and fitted a through shaft version replacing the encoder with one that has BLDC commutation tracks and can be used on AMC drives and others.
    There was also a poster here that came up with a board for sale to convert the existing commutation encoders.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    1195

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Al,
    Thanks for reply, I just want to make sure that is almost impossible to control ac fanuc servo motor with a non fanuc board.

  9. #29
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    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    This shows the 4 bit output from the Fanuc commutation.and how it is interpolated.
    Al
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    332

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Yes, it is possible to reuse most older model Fanuc Servo motors and drives and some newer models.
    We have done this hundreds of times since the early 80s. We can also provide the wiring charts once we know the model number.

    These are proprietary and not all models can be done but we have been gathering this information and experience for many years , over thousands of retrofits. We agree that there are many issues trying to use old Fanuc servo motors with non Fanuc drives. We have replaced many systems over the years where people have tried to use non Fanuc amp drives on Fanuc motors. Either replace both the motor and the drive together or else find out if you have a compatible model that we can use and keep both the Fanuc servo motors and Amp drives.

    If you have a good electrical mechanical person or have not done this before we will guide them otherwise we have over 100 dealers/installers in North America these days and around the world that can come on site and show you.

    There are three basic types of communication signals. We need to know the 12 digit Fanuc part number that begins with A06B.

    Doing this saves quite a bit of labor and money. No need to get into the high-voltage wiring side of the machine. Basically this is redirecting low-voltage signal wires over to a terminal strip that we provide. We will prepare the wiring documentation on where the connections go to. There is no extra cost for this.


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    [email protected]
    PH 951-674-8100
    Fax 951-674-3110
    CNC Controller, PC Based CNC Controls

  11. #31
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    Dec 2003
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    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by camsoft View Post
    We have done this hundreds of times since the early 80s. We can also provide the wiring charts once we know the model number.
    Of course it was easy in the early 60's and even later, from the days of the old 6M and many that followed etc, these were all DC Brushed motors, the poster was referring to the AC servo which was not around then.
    I commend you on integrating the 4 bit commutation encoder on the AC servo's.Did you retain them as AC or BLDC servo's?
    I just used a simple through hole encoder with commutation tracks from Renco to replace the Fanuc version, the cost was quite reasonable.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    332

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    We have done both the red end cap Fanuc AC brushless servos as well as their DC permanent magnet brushed servos. Many of the AC models have "pulse encoders". If so we have retained them. Otherwise some of the newer Fanuc encoders with 4 bit coding we just replaced and on others this wasn't even possible. It's on a case by case base.


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    [email protected]
    PH 951-674-8100
    Fax 951-674-3110
    CNC Controller, PC Based CNC Controls

  13. #33
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    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by camsoft View Post
    Many of the AC models have "pulse encoders". If so we have retained them. Otherwise some of the newer Fanuc encoders with 4 bit coding we just replaced and on others this wasn't even possible. It's on a case by case base.


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    ]

    All of the Fanuc AC servo's I have serviced over the (many) years had quadrature encoders with 4 bit commutation tracks.
    The one concern I had was by retaining the Fanuc AC drives, I did not want to be held hostage to Fanuc spares and pricing.
    Fitting the Renco encoder and using the simple A-M-C, Copley Controls or Aerotech drives eliminated this and also facilitated the simple ±10vdc command from Galil.
    Not a really high cost replacement.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Here's the result of my high speed spindle test

    I am looking for a spindle encoder that will do 9000 RPM, need differential output. Any suggestions on best offer?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails spindle encoder broke.jpg  

  15. #35
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    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    You may be better off to use a through-hole encoder rather than a shaft type. (no bearings).
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    411

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    So, I take it that the shaft has broken? Seems like 9k should not be too much for a quality encoder. My bet is that you just got a bad one that is made of chinesium. Try a different manufacturer. Or just get one with a larger diameter shaft.

    https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...otary_encoders

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    411

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Maybe you could get something like this in that small space so you wouldn't need the belt. BTW, I did not get a cost for it, was just browsing. Also, you would probably need some conversion logic interface. But it looks cool.

    https://www.rls.si/eng/products/rota...solute-encoder

  18. #38
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    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    My fark up.

    I thought it was a solid shaft encoder. NOT. It was a hollow shaft with two missing set screws. the solid 1/4" shaft just slid out. Should be running shortly after I get to town for parts.

    I've had the same style encoder running on a 1/4" timing belt for 10 years on my other mill.

  19. #39
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    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_T View Post
    My fark up.

    I thought it was a solid shaft encoder. NOT. It was a hollow shaft with two missing set screws. the solid 1/4" shaft just slid out. Should be running shortly after I get to town for parts.

    .
    So it is a through hole encoder?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  20. #40
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    Mar 2004
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    1542

    Re: Vectrac CNC Knee mill refit from Fanuc 0M to Camsoft

    Not really. it has a 1/4" bore 1/2" deep. I got it used off another piece of CNC machinery. Been in my parts box for YEARS.

    If this don't work, I'll go with that automation Direct offer, mentioned above.

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