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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    4

    First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Hi,

    Just joined up here after finding this forum on the weekend. Been reading here ever since.

    I am interested in buying a laser cutting machine. Reading through the threads it looks like Chinese is the way to go for cost savings but with caveats.

    So from reading here it seems the AEON cutters are the ones to go for. I want as big a cutter as I can afford. I have a budget of around 15K USD + shipping and import duties etc.

    I see the MIRA from AEON is recommended. Are the other machines from AEON as good? Better? Worse ? Why is it that the MIRA is recommended? Just because of price perhaps?

    If I were to stick with the MIRA class machine I would go for the MIRA 9060 - specs say a 900x600mm working area (is that the actual max cut area?). So 900 x 600 would be OK. I would prefer a bit bigger cutting area but 900 600 is OK for my first machine.

    What is the max size power on this class of machine? It looks to me as though they max they offer is 100W. I want to cut plywood up to about 12mm/15mm and acrylic sheet up to about 15mm. I may want to do other thing in time but dont know what else I may want to cut at this time. I am sure that owning a machine like this will open up ideas as time goes on!

    From what I have read here, it seems the MIRA is a decent machine. Is the company in China anygood ? Any scams/dishonest practices to watch out for with them?

    Any MIRA users here?

    Thanks for any info

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    371

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    In this price range, GCC would be your best option. When requesting a quote ask them specifically for a DC (glass) laser.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storen View Post
    In this price range, GCC would be your best option. When requesting a quote ask them specifically for a DC (glass) laser.
    Forgive my ignorance, but who is GCC? Are they Chinese? Why do you say ask for a DC laser? Can you maybe give me a url where i can find more information on a DC laser?

    I have read elsewhere that laser cutters can have a tough time cutting ply wood. Does anyone here have any info or experience on that?

    Thanks for any info provided


    Edit: OK found GCC. Based in Taiwan. Higher end Chinese then. Servo motors, so from I have read so far, thats good. What else is it about GCC you like ?
    Last edited by Battery_Powered; 02-13-2019 at 07:55 PM.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2015
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    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battery_Powered View Post
    Forgive my ignorance, but who is GCC? Are they Chinese? Why do you say ask for a DC laser? Can you maybe give me a url where i can find more information on a DC laser?

    I have read elsewhere that laser cutters can have a tough time cutting ply wood. Does anyone here have any info or experience on that?

    Thanks for any info provided


    Edit: OK found GCC. Based in Taiwan. Higher end Chinese then. Servo motors, so from I have read so far, thats good. What else is it about GCC you like ?
    It is a higher class machine. Everything will be better - construction, components, software, quality control, support. Currently, GCC offers the best cutting machines in this price range.
    The reason I mentioned to ask for DC is that a high wattage RF laser (good enough for cutting) would be outside your budget. Besides, it is probably going to be an overkill in your case.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2018
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    1

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    I'm also looking for a AEON Mira laser cutter and I choose the Mira 7045 but can't decide if I should get the RF 30w tube or more powerful water cooled one, need the laser mostly for engraving. Can someone please give suggestions

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battery_Powered View Post
    Hi,

    Just joined up here after finding this forum on the weekend. Been reading here ever since.

    I am interested in buying a laser cutting machine. Reading through the threads it looks like Chinese is the way to go for cost savings but with caveats.

    So from reading here it seems the AEON cutters are the ones to go for. I want as big a cutter as I can afford. I have a budget of around 15K USD + shipping and import duties etc.
    Really? That name has never come up in my research. 99% of Chinese laser and CNC machines come from Jinan, but Aeon is based in Jiangsu. That, in itself isn't a problem, because Jiangsu is noted for high-tech electronic assembly, but interesting that this company are 'the ones to go for' yet are outside the traditional laser production area.

    I see the MIRA from AEON is recommended. Are the other machines from AEON as good? Better? Worse ? Why is it that the MIRA is recommended? Just because of price perhaps?

    If I were to stick with the MIRA class machine I would go for the MIRA 9060 - specs say a 900x600mm working area (is that the actual max cut area?). So 900 x 600 would be OK. I would prefer a bit bigger cutting area but 900 600 is OK for my first machine.
    Define your specs - what speed, power, size, of machine you want, then find a manufacturer. You've done it ass-about-face, in my opinion, by finding a manufacturer then choosing a machine they sell. There are a lot of good machinery makers in China. And don't forget, most of these guys are sheet-metal workers, they use off-the-shelf components to assemble their machines. They are all using the same components, or should be.

    Look for some well-known and respected components and ensure your supplier is using them:

    Leadshine for drivers and closed-loop steppers
    Reci for tubes and PSU
    HiWin for transport and bearings
    Trocen for controllers

    Just to name a few. Of course there are others, but those are known, good manufacturers.

    What is the max size power on this class of machine? It looks to me as though they max they offer is 100W. I want to cut plywood up to about 12mm/15mm and acrylic sheet up to about 15mm. I may want to do other thing in time but dont know what else I may want to cut at this time. I am sure that owning a machine like this will open up ideas as time goes on!
    You can fit a W8 tube in one, but it doesn't really make sense. You will need 130-150W (Reci W6) at a minimum to cut 15mm plywood in one pass.

    From what I have read here, it seems the MIRA is a decent machine. Is the company in China anygood ? Any scams/dishonest practices to watch out for with them?

    Any MIRA users here?
    You've read good things, but not from users? Who then?

    And yes, plenty of scams and dishonest vendors. Just be aware of what you're getting. They want your money, most aren't interested in your second business. Support is less important than getting the cash.

    After doing a search, nearly all the positive noise about Aeon is from resellers. Not yet read a single post from an owner.

    Never a good sign.

    If you are really going to be cutting 15mm ply and acrylic, there's a lot of options. You say you want the biggest machine you can get, but then are looking at a 6090, rather than a 1325.

    US$15k gets you a lot of machine.

    I recently got a few quotes for 1390 machines (1300 x 900) with a Reci W6 and they were all around the US$6k mark, delivered.

    Make a questionnaire and send it to a dozen makers:

    What is your maximum cutting size
    Do you support pass-through
    Do you support ethernet/wifi networking
    What make/model of stepper driver
    What make/model of stepper motor
    What make of linear rail
    What make/model of CO2 tube
    What make/model of laser mirror/lens
    What make/model of PSU
    What make/model of controller
    What make/model of chiller
    Do you have interlocks on all openings
    Do you have emergency stop

    etc.

    Think about your day in production and what you want to achieve and how the machine will support that and ask questions accordingly.

    And be cautious of people recommending stuff they don't use themselves.

    I'm researching buying 3-4 laser engraver/cutters right now. three smaller desktop size and a larger 1390 or 1325. As it represents a large capital investment, with a similar further investment in 12 months, if all goes well, I'm in no hurry to jump in bed with a specific manufacturer. I've sent out requests for information to half a dozen manufacturers. Two - well known and often talked about on here - have been given the thumbs down straight away because they have shown an inability to follow basic instructions or to answer questions fully.

    Don't accept half-assed.

    The leading vendor currently is one that is less well-known in the US, but well-known in Australia/New Zealand, which is where I will be based. He's not the cheapest, but is responsive and thorough, which makes me think the company is also responsive and thorough.

    When I've made some bone-headed questions/demands, he's patiently explained why it isn't such a good idea - such as going for a higher-spec chiller with multiple outlets to service two machines. If it goes down, I will have two down machines, not one - doh!

    The other thing he recommended that none of the other vendors did, was to get shipping insurance. At 4% of the shipped price with a $300 excess, it makes sense when you have $12k in the mix.

    I will likely visit the factory before I place the order.

    From a couple of decades of dealing with Chinese suppliers, I can give you a couple of pieces of advice: Don't tell them your budget - or your machine will magically come within your budget. Be specific about what you want - you want a honeycomb and knife table, auto-focus and pass-through, but the machine spec doesn't have it? Just ask. Tell them what you want, let them decide a solution.

    And be specific about getting fully-detailed quotations including part specifications, warranty and support. If they can't or won't give you a full breakdown of the unit, walk away.

  7. #7

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ledaero View Post
    Really? That name has never come up in my research. 99% of Chinese laser and CNC machines come from Jinan, but Aeon is based in Jiangsu. That, in itself isn't a problem, because Jiangsu is noted for high-tech electronic assembly, but interesting that this company are 'the ones to go for' yet are outside the traditional laser production area.



    Define your specs - what speed, power, size, of machine you want, then find a manufacturer. You've done it ass-about-face, in my opinion, by finding a manufacturer then choosing a machine they sell. There are a lot of good machinery makers in China. And don't forget, most of these guys are sheet-metal workers, they use off-the-shelf components to assemble their machines. They are all using the same components, or should be.

    Look for some well-known and respected components and ensure your supplier is using them:

    Leadshine for drivers and closed-loop steppers
    Reci for tubes and PSU
    HiWin for transport and bearings
    Trocen for controllers

    Just to name a few. Of course there are others, but those are known, good manufacturers.



    You can fit a W8 tube in one, but it doesn't really make sense. You will need 130-150W (Reci W6) at a minimum to cut 15mm plywood in one pass.



    You've read good things, but not from users? Who then?

    And yes, plenty of scams and dishonest vendors. Just be aware of what you're getting. They want your money, most aren't interested in your second business. Support is less important than getting the cash.

    After doing a search, nearly all the positive noise about Aeon is from resellers. Not yet read a single post from an owner.

    Never a good sign.

    If you are really going to be cutting 15mm ply and acrylic, there's a lot of options. You say you want the biggest machine you can get, but then are looking at a 6090, rather than a 1325.

    US$15k gets you a lot of machine.

    I recently got a few quotes for 1390 machines (1300 x 900) with a Reci W6 and they were all around the US$6k mark, delivered.

    Make a questionnaire and send it to a dozen makers:

    What is your maximum cutting size
    Do you support pass-through
    Do you support ethernet/wifi networking
    What make/model of stepper driver
    What make/model of stepper motor
    What make of linear rail
    What make/model of CO2 tube
    What make/model of laser mirror/lens
    What make/model of PSU
    What make/model of controller
    What make/model of chiller
    Do you have interlocks on all openings
    Do you have emergency stop

    etc.

    Think about your day in production and what you want to achieve and how the machine will support that and ask questions accordingly.

    And be cautious of people recommending stuff they don't use themselves.

    I'm researching buying 3-4 laser engraver/cutters right now. three smaller desktop size and a larger 1390 or 1325. As it represents a large capital investment, with a similar further investment in 12 months, if all goes well, I'm in no hurry to jump in bed with a specific manufacturer. I've sent out requests for information to half a dozen manufacturers. Two - well known and often talked about on here - have been given the thumbs down straight away because they have shown an inability to follow basic instructions or to answer questions fully.

    Don't accept half-assed.

    The leading vendor currently is one that is less well-known in the US, but well-known in Australia/New Zealand, which is where I will be based. He's not the cheapest, but is responsive and thorough, which makes me think the company is also responsive and thorough.

    When I've made some bone-headed questions/demands, he's patiently explained why it isn't such a good idea - such as going for a higher-spec chiller with multiple outlets to service two machines. If it goes down, I will have two down machines, not one - doh!

    The other thing he recommended that none of the other vendors did, was to get shipping insurance. At 4% of the shipped price with a $300 excess, it makes sense when you have $12k in the mix.

    I will likely visit the factory before I place the order.

    From a couple of decades of dealing with Chinese suppliers, I can give you a couple of pieces of advice: Don't tell them your budget - or your machine will magically come within your budget. Be specific about what you want - you want a honeycomb and knife table, auto-focus and pass-through, but the machine spec doesn't have it? Just ask. Tell them what you want, let them decide a solution.

    And be specific about getting fully-detailed quotations including part specifications, warranty and support. If they can't or won't give you a full breakdown of the unit, walk away.
    Above suggestions are really helpful for newbie, Great!
    www.thunderlaser.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    ....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    4
    Some great pointers there.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battery_Powered View Post
    Some great pointers there.
    Tried to send you a PM, but you’ve either got it turned off or haven’t hit the minimum posts, yet.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    4
    Hi ledero,

    You offer lots of good points.

    I found the name AEON from this forum. Soren seems to be knowledgeable and he recommends them. So went to do the research. Turkish machine made in China. Some sort of JV maybe? IDK. But certainly seems that the reports here, even from the dealer who seems to like touting for business here, is credible. At least from an outsiders perspective. I would surely feel more comfortable buying from them then Ying.Jing.Dong.Fang.Wu.Ha Co etc. Man who are these little companies?

    My initial approach to this was to buy the largest small machine I could, hence the 900 x 600 table size.

    I was approaching this from the point of view that I know little to nothing about these machines so was looking to buy a 1st machine, a good one though, use it, learn it, then upgrade to a much bigger better machine later.

    That approach lets me learn and see what these machines really can do, cant do and lets me see what I really need for my intended work.

    My confidence level in buying a Chinese product is little to none. I dont have high expectations of anything Chinese - they are not much good in my view. If you want the best you need to buy American or European. Lets hope I am proven wrong, but I highly doubt it, but again lets see.

    I dont have too many specs right now as I dont know what i am looking for, hence a good upper tier brand is a safe bet for me. Cost more yes, but you get more. I dont think many would argue with that logic.

    Out of China I have come to learn I want a Reci Tube. You have filled in some other parts to look for, such as...... HiWin for transport and bearings, Trocen for controllers.

    Good to know, so thanks for that.

    I would be very interested in knowing the machine/s you have selected and why. Also visiting the factory would be an eye opener. Clean tidy well run factory probably points to a better built machine. If they have the mind set to be clean and well run then that probably carries through to the work they do.

    All in all, your points are excellent and will help many people who end up here looking for info on what Chinese machine to buy.

    Thanks for your time, much appreciated.
    Last edited by Battery_Powered; 02-17-2019 at 08:54 AM.

  12. #12
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    Sep 2018
    Posts
    36

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Since we're on the topic and I have spent the last 2 years with my head inside several AEON machines, I think it's up to me to give them the credit they deserve. Aside from using the same software, controller, drivers and a few other common Chinese components, the AEON line is vastly different than your typical Chinese laser. The Turkish company redesigned many of the "off the shelf" components that you would find in most lasers and modeled them after the American machines.

    Functionality has greatly increased. For example, the AEON MIRAs can scan at up to 1200 mm/sec and 1000 mm/sec on the NOVA. Not many Chinese machines exceed 400 mm/sec with their heavy laser heads and sluggish stepper motors. I you look at the drive motors, they are double stacked and full of torque. Plus the MIRA model has a super light weight laser head that mimics the engineering you would find in a Trotec or Epilog.

    Another great feature of the AEON line is that they enclosed all of their linear rails in a way where no debris or soot can accumulate inside them. Again, this is customary of American machines where everything is neatly encased. If you look at most Chinese machines, all of the linear rails are exposed and many of them have the driving components sitting right at the rear of the cabinet instead of out back where the laser tube is installed. This is why AEON gives you a 3 year warranty on the linear motion system. With plywood being as messy as it is, having this upgrade will prevent a whole lot of maintenance and ensure these components do not break down prematurely.

    Yes, the body of the machines are nice looking, but it's not anything to do with making them less shameful. If you take the two front panels off either model, you're looking at a cube, nothing fancy. If you really want to appreciate what they've done, you have to really look at the innovations. For example. the MIRA has all built in components. I just had the new MIRA9 come in and its got the WJ5000 chiller built right in along with the air pump and exhaust fan. The lids of the machines are going to tempered glass now and soon all of the MIRAs will be rolled out as Class 1 lasers with keyed ignitions. They've even added a relay to the Y Driver so that switching between flat and rotary happens upon connection of the rotary device. While they are pretty to look at, the entire design was aimed at function not form. The airflow is spectacular in these machines and with the beefed up 700W fan they pack with the NOVAs, you really ensure every last bit of smoke is cleared out immediately.

    There's still not many pictures out there of the AEON machines, so if you haven't laid hands on them personally, it's hard to really talk about what they have to offer. However, if you spend a day with one and really stick your head inside, you will be pleasantly surprised. Best of all, AEON is only on their second generation of improvements. There are tons of new things on the way and I have a feeling this company will out shine many of its Chinese competitors. So far everyone of our customers has been thrilled. Some went with the MIRA over the Glowforge and others went with a NOVA over the Boss. At the end of the day we can choose to sell any brand we want, but from where we sit, no one in China is offering a better package.


    Danny Martinez
    Engraving Machines Plus, Corp.
    (321) 821-7774
    [email protected]
    Melbourne, FL

    <img src="http://www.engraving-machines-plus.com/assets/images/EMP_Logo_2_Small.png" alt="321-821-7774">

  13. #13
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    Feb 2019
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    2
    Not sure what is going on with this forum. I have to log in to Industry Arena which has the same posts as CNC Zone but Industry Arena is NOT in sync with CNC Zone...weird.....

    Well not sure if this post will sync in with all the new posts I am seeing on CNC Zone but will give it a go.

    Firstly, this thread has blossomed into a great read on how to select a cutter. Great input, thanks !!

    @Ledaero

    No attitude here at all. Simply stating what I believe to be a fact. No Chinese machine is as good as a US made machine. A US machine is probably not as good as German/Swiss machine. Like you I also have many years of experience with machines (not laser cutters or CNC) and that has been my experience. YMMV.

    I am all for saving money and if I can get a reasonably decent machine that can do the job then I would be seriously interested in that. Hence asking here.

    I am interested in Chinese because shipping is the easiest where I am. I am in East Africa, so shipping from China to here is the simplest and most cost effective of any place to ship from to here. So if I can get a Chinese machine well and good. I still have reservations though no matter what anyone says. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Some things have changed.

    I have been doing a HUGE deep dive into this for almost 2 weeks now. Day and night at the PC reading and downloading. Surely no expert of course but a lot more up to speed now on many areas of laser cutter. I have come to understand what a glass tube can do and what an RF laser can do.

    I never set out to buy according to what a particular factory makes, its just that the AEON machines piqued my interest because of being a bit better built. At that stage i thought I wanted a small machine to learn on since it was all so new and a bit scary getting into since I had zero experience in this. Now having spent over 100 hours researching , reading and watching countless YouTube videos its all feeling a bit more comfortable now.

    So taking heed of some advice here, I went back to the start to analyze my needs so I could better understand what it is I need.

    My primary mission critical need is to cut plywood (90%)and Acrylic (10)%. Further down the track the day will come when I dont need to make any more parts. So what to do with the machine then? (doubt I could sell it here). So engraving becomes important later on.

    So Plywood.

    Did a huge amount of research into this. Turns out that Laser grade ply is best. For finer work, 4mm is best as it has fewer plys (3 ply) - therefore less chance of hitting knots, voids etc on the inner ply. Need ply with interior grade glue that is Urea Formaldehyde/Melamine formaldehyde based. Really need to avoid Phenol-formaldehyde glues.

    Best Plywood for Laser Cutting is Baltic Birch. This further breaks down to Finnish Baltic Birch and Russian Baltic Birch. Same tree , different mills. Russian is cheaper and not far behind Finnish/Latvian Birch. Finnish is the most expensive.

    Most readily available sizes are 1525 x 1525mm and 1525mm x 1250mm.

    Chinese Baltic Birch from the best mills in China typically use several pieces to make a ply layer, whilst the Scandinavian/Russian Mills use a single piece to make a ply layer. Chinese Birch is reported to vary quite widely even within a single batch. I will be importing a container load of Baltic Birch from Russia and aiming for 1525 x 1250mm at this stage.

    Given this deeper understanding of what material I will be working with I have now expanded the size/budget of a Lase Cutter substantially. I need a cutting table that can accommodate a full 1525 x 1250 mm sheet (given the cost of buying this material and shipping it here from Russia it only makes sense to purchase a machine that takes full advantage of this sheet size).

    So Bigger machine class altogether.

    I looked into GCC. Seem to be nice machines but thier biggest machine is too small. Now looking for a GOOD (VERY GOOD) Chinese machine with a table at least 1525x 1250mm cutting area.

    I am still open to a Glass Tube but think I would prefer an RF Laser. Later on I may want to cut up to 25mm ply so need a powerful Laser - thinking around 400W.

    This may all change again but thats where I am now.

    I see AEON is no longer my target machine. Decided that I am going to jump straight in and buy the machine I need for production first UP instead of messing with a small machine first.

    Clearly, I cant get to the USA to look at machines - sorry Danny. A US based supplier of Chinese machines could not help me much other then hand hold over the phone. Better to buy in China and fly Leadero or Soren over for a week of work and a week of sight seeing :-)

    So given all this, what input now?

    Leadero, very interested in your input since you have been buying these machines for a long time, so figure you know your way around these machines and China !

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2
    Not sure what is going on with this forum. I have to log in to Industry Arena which has the same posts as CNC Zone but Industry Arena is NOT in sync with CNC Zone...weird.....

    Well not sure if this post will sync in with all the new posts I am seeing on CNC Zone but will give it a go.

    Firstly, this thread has blossomed into a great read on how to select a cutter. Great input, thanks !!

    @Ledaero

    No attitude here at all. Simply stating what I believe to be a fact. No Chinese machine is as good as a US made machine. A US machine is probably not as good as German/Swiss machine. Like you I also have many years of experience with machines (not laser cutters or CNC) and that has been my experience. YMMV.

    I am all for saving money and if I can get a reasonably decent machine that can do the job then I would be seriously interested in that. Hence asking here.

    I am interested in Chinese because shipping is the easiest where I am. I am in East Africa, so shipping from China to here is the simplest and most cost effective of any place to ship from to here. So if I can get a Chinese machine well and good. I still have reservations though no matter what anyone says. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Some things have changed.

    I have been doing a HUGE deep dive into this for almost 2 weeks now. Day and night at the PC reading and downloading. Surely no expert of course but a lot more up to speed now on many areas of laser cutter. I have come to understand what a glass tube can do and what an RF laser can do.

    I never set out to buy according to what a particular factory makes, its just that the AEON machines piqued my interest because of being a bit better built. At that stage i thought I wanted a small machine to learn on since it was all so new and a bit scary getting into since I had zero experience in this. Now having spent over 100 hours researching , reading and watching countless YouTube videos its all feeling a bit more comfortable now.

    So taking heed of some advice here, I went back to the start to analyze my needs so I could better understand what it is I need.

    My primary mission critical need is to cut plywood (90%)and Acrylic (10)%. Further down the track the day will come when I dont need to make any more parts. So what to do with the machine then? (doubt I could sell it here). So engraving becomes important later on.

    So Plywood.

    Did a huge amount of research into this. Turns out that Laser grade ply is best. For finer work, 4mm is best as it has fewer plys (3 ply) - therefore less chance of hitting knots, voids etc on the inner ply. Need ply with interior grade glue that is Urea Formaldehyde/Melamine formaldehyde based. Really need to avoid Phenol-formaldehyde glues.

    Best Plywood for Laser Cutting is Baltic Birch. This further breaks down to Finnish Baltic Birch and Russian Baltic Birch. Same tree , different mills. Russian is cheaper and not far behind Finnish/Latvian Birch. Finnish is the most expensive.

    Most readily available sizes are 1525 x 1525mm and 1525mm x 1250mm.

    Chinese Baltic Birch from the best mills in China typically use several pieces to make a ply layer, whilst the Scandinavian/Russian Mills use a single piece to make a ply layer. Chinese Birch is reported to vary quite widely even within a single batch. I will be importing a container load of Baltic Birch from Russia and aiming for 1525 x 1250mm at this stage.

    Given this deeper understanding of what material I will be working with I have now expanded the size/budget of a Lase Cutter substantially. I need a cutting table that can accommodate a full 1525 x 1250 mm sheet (given the cost of buying this material and shipping it here from Russia it only makes sense to purchase a machine that takes full advantage of this sheet size).

    So Bigger machine class altogether.

    I looked into GCC. Seem to be nice machines but thier biggest machine is too small. Now looking for a GOOD (VERY GOOD) Chinese machine with a table at least 1525x 1250mm cutting area.

    I am still open to a Glass Tube but think I would prefer an RF Laser. Later on I may want to cut up to 25mm ply so need a powerful Laser - thinking around 400W.

    This may all change again but thats where I am now.

    I see AEON is no longer my target machine. Decided that I am going to jump straight in and buy the machine I need for production first UP instead of messing with a small machine first.

    Clearly, I cant get to the USA to look at machines - sorry Danny. A US based supplier of Chinese machines could not help me much other then hand hold over the phone. Better to buy in China and fly Leadero or Soren over for a week of work and a week of sight seeing :-)

    So given all this, what input now?

    Leadero, very interested in your input since you have been buying these machines for a long time, so figure you know your way around these machines and China !

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    36

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    As an engineer, my idea of what is ‘better’ or ‘best’ has nothing to do with price, support, stock-holding or training. Your mileage may differ.
    This further supports what I was saying, what is best is relative to the individual and what they value most. In you case, it's all about the components and that's great... for you. However, that is not to say that overall performance, training or after sales support are not an important part of the decision making process for someone else. While I can see the point you are trying to make, in this particular case, we weren't talking about "a hobbyist who wants a machine on a limited budget."

    I want as big a cutter as I can afford. I have a budget of around 15K USD + shipping and import duties etc.
    At best, you've made an argument for the quality of your machine based on the brand names of its components. Your advice is largely based on a matter of opinion and relies heavily on the assumption that no better brands have come along that may be superior to the ones you've come to know. Even as a "salesman", I know better than to talk down a machine that I know nothing about short of reading the spec sheet. If I was to take your approach, I would make sure to at least bring some facts to support my claim. A fair comparison between all of the components you've listed would take a significant amount of time and research and go far beyond their brand names. Even then, you'd be basing your decision without having experienced the other machine in question for yourself.

    Let's see if this analogy holds water. Take Car and Driver Magazine for example. When they put two comparable vehicles up against each other, they never make their recommendation based on the specs alone. They are well aware that to give a credible review, they need to get behind the wheel of both vehicles and speak from the full experience. When it's all said and done, it's mainly through their experience that they arrive at their point of view. If they were to simply judge either vehicle by solely the sum of its parts, this would give the readers a very detached review that would lead to a distorted opinion. Besides, Car and Spec Sheet just doesn't have the same ring to it.

    be cautious of people recommending stuff they don't use themselves
    That's actually great advise. By the same logic, you can also say, "be cautious of people discrediting stuff they don't use themselves." At the end of the day, we can only speak truthfully from our experience. As an end user, I've operated several makes and models of CO2 lasers, both Chinese and American. As a salesman, I've worked with thousands of clients ranging from hobbyists to Fortune 500 Companies. As a dealer in Chinese lasers, I've torn into enough machines to warrant the development of an extensive quality control program that till this day, not a single Chinese manufacturer I've dealt with has been able to surpass. I've learned a lot in the last ten years of doing this as a profession, yet I hesitate to call my self an expert as I still learn something new every day.

    I'll be the first to admit I cannot talk intelligently about Shenhui lasers as I've never used one. If I do a search on this forum and use what I find to form an opinion, it would come from no real experience of my own and rest entirely on the assumption that what I've read is one, true and two, all there is to know about Shenhui lasers. Since brand names and personal opinions barely scratch the surface of what makes a machine "better" or "best", how about we put these machines side by side to a real performance test. After all, if anything can attest to the quality of these components it will be seeing them in action first hand while they're performing in concert.

    I recommend we select a file that shows off both cut and scan functions to see which machine can deliver the best results. We can leave the laser tubes out of this and solely focus on speed and precision. Drawing on paper would be an excellent way to see how well each machine can handle linear and circular interpolation. We can agree to use the same lens and run the test at various speeds to see if they can keep up with one another. When it's all said and done, we can upload our videos and high resolutions images for everyone to see. In fact, if any other Chinese laser users or dealers would like to participate, I say the more the merrier. I've done my research, you've done yours, I say it's time we call and see which one of us is left holding the winning hand.


    Danny Martinez
    Engraving Machines Plus, Corp.
    (321) 821-7774
    [email protected]
    Melbourne, FL

    <img src="http://www.engraving-machines-plus.com/assets/images/EMP_Logo_2_Small.png" alt="321-821-7774">

  16. #16

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battery_Powered View Post
    Hi,

    Just joined up here after finding this forum on the weekend. Been reading here ever since.

    I am interested in buying a laser cutting machine. Reading through the threads it looks like Chinese is the way to go for cost savings but with caveats.

    So from reading here it seems the AEON cutters are the ones to go for. I want as big a cutter as I can afford. I have a budget of around 15K USD + shipping and import duties etc.

    I see the MIRA from AEON is recommended. Are the other machines from AEON as good? Better? Worse ? Why is it that the MIRA is recommended? Just because of price perhaps?

    If I were to stick with the MIRA class machine I would go for the MIRA 9060 - specs say a 900x600mm working area (is that the actual max cut area?). So 900 x 600 would be OK. I would prefer a bit bigger cutting area but 900 600 is OK for my first machine.

    What is the max size power on this class of machine? It looks to me as though they max they offer is 100W. I want to cut plywood up to about 12mm/15mm and acrylic sheet up to about 15mm. I may want to do other thing in time but dont know what else I may want to cut at this time. I am sure that owning a machine like this will open up ideas as time goes on!

    From what I have read here, it seems the MIRA is a decent machine. Is the company in China anygood ? Any scams/dishonest practices to watch out for with them?

    Any MIRA users here?

    Thanks for any info
    Hi This is Amy from Thunderlaser.
    I recommend our Nova35 machine to you:
    laser-cutter
    Nova35 with working area 900x600mm, 80w and 100w for choice.
    It comes motorized table, hybrid servo motors, air assist, smart board and all accessories needed to set up and run.
    for more detail, you can also send us email: [email protected]
    thanks.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    www.thunderlaser.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    As an example of a decent 'beginner' machine that would do you well as an advanced hobby user, I just ordered a bunch of machines and one of them was a 6090-sized unit (600x900mm - decent working area) with Leadshine 3-Phase steppers, Leadshine stepper controller @36V, Ruida RDC 6442G controller, Reci W4 tube with GY power supply, Taiwanese rail system, steel-reinforced belt, autofocus z-table, S&A CW-5000 chiller, big extractor fan with quality fittings.

    That came to US$2650 to port where I will pay 5% duty and about $150 to ship to my house (port is only 60km away) - Jinan to US door-to-door would be more, but not much more - a few hundred bucks.

    The manufacturer I buy from tends to do most of his business making OEM for other brands, so his quality and QC is high, with low prices. He's been making laser cutters and engravers for over 15 years.

    His 1390-sized machine in 150W (1300 x 900mm, Reci W8 tube) with similar spec hardware but with a CW5200 is around US$6k and that would allow you to feed full ply/mdf/acrylic sheets, using the material pass-through. I seriously considered one, but will hold out for a 1325-size for my own use. This 6090 is for rent/makerspace use.

    So you can see, a budget of $15k can get you a lot of machine.

    If it was me, I would rather pay moderate money for a reliable machine with quality components and use the rest for your infrastructure at home - power, fume extraction, additional computer, etc. than pay top-dollar for something that won't have any better componentry, but has a fancy case and some amorphous 'designed in europe' pedigree.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    13

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Hi Ledaero

    Nick from the UK. Will you be able to hint to me the manufacturer you were talking about? I'm following the posts around this topic(which manufacturer from China) for a while and I must say that many of you few other guys are really helpful for us the newbies. Thanks in advance!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBhunter View Post
    Hi Ledaero

    Nick from the UK. Will you be able to hint to me the manufacturer you were talking about? I'm following the posts around this topic(which manufacturer from China) for a while and I must say that many of you few other guys are really helpful for us the newbies. Thanks in advance!
    Send me a PM and I’ll put you in touch

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    125

    Re: First Laser Cutting Machine purchase - any pointers?

    Aeon aren’t an ‘upper tier brand’. Just because they charge over the odds, doesn’t make them better. Their spec is very much the same as the unit I just bought for ~$3k, who have been ISO compliant since 2004 and making lasers since 1999.

    Do what you want. I’ve been buying machinery from China for over twenty years and have had very few failures.

    If you start out with an attitude that they’re inferior, no doubt you will find reasons to have your opinion vindicated.

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