584,833 active members*
5,685 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > 500w chinese spindle interference
Page 2 of 3 123
Results 21 to 40 of 49
  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    480

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    You should be able to use an emi filter on the 0-10 volt command going into the spindle controller. depending on the type they are typically CLC filters, 4.7nF to ground on both phases, a 1-10mH common mode choke and .1 to 1uf capacitors line to line.

    another emi filter on the ac input.

    put the two emi filters in a metal box along with the spindle driver and run a shielded cable out to the motor. ground the shield to the box and the motor.

  2. #22
    GreenCameleon Guest

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Ok. Got a hold of a multimeter.

    So the following two measurements should be made:
    - measure between the motor output common terminal the negative side to the spindle controller and see if you get zero ohms
    - measure with an ohm meter between the spindle driver case and the Negative side of the DC power coming into the spindle controller.

    One question: the spindle controller is powered by 230AC, not DC. From the instructions of the two measurements above, I don't know what you mean with DC power coming into the spindle controller. I am attaching a better picture of the controller and its terminals.

    The terminals are the following:
    - 0-10V input for automtic control from MACH3
    - 3 terminals used by the potentiometer for manually adjusting the speed of the spindle
    - two terminals for connecting an emergency switch
    - two terminals for spindle/motor control
    - two terminals for AC power (i've connected the ground wire of the power cable to the chassis as instructed elsewhere)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails controller.jpg  

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    OK, let me ask a few questions.

    You have three leads for the 220V coming into the Spindle controller. RED, Y ELLOW, BLACK. 220V is normally provided with two wires, L1,L2. Are one of these wires a neutral or a ground?

    Now next step take your ohm meter put it on X1 setting. Touch the two leads together and your meter should read zero ohms. That makes sure you have everything setup correctly. Now take one meter lead and touch the case of the Spindle controller, take the other lead and touch each of the screw terminals one at a time and see if any of them read zero ohms to the spindle controller case. Make absolutely sure you have the power unplugged when doing this test !!!

    We are trying to discover is the case is ground to any terminal. Once we understand that aspect we will move on to the next step. The idea is we might need to take the common of the spindle output which is the Negative side of the DC power going to the spindle and attach that to the ground terminal. This would make sure the common side will not float and make lots of noise. Do not do this step until we understand if any terminals are actually designed as ground.

    Russ

  4. #24
    GreenCameleon Guest

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    OK, let me ask a few questions.
    You have three leads for the 220V coming into the Spindle controller. RED, Y ELLOW, BLACK. 220V is normally provided with two wires, L1,L2. Are one of these wires a neutral or a ground?
    Russ
    The three leads (red, yellow, black) belong the the potentiometer for the manual control of the spindle speed. The AC power input terminals are on the far right side of the case. I've updated the picture, where I've color coded the terminal.


    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    OK, let me ask a few questions.

    Now next step take your ohm meter put it on X1 setting. Touch the two leads together and your meter should read zero ohms. That makes sure you have everything setup correctly. Now take one meter lead and touch the case of the Spindle controller, take the other lead and touch each of the screw terminals one at a time and see if any of them read zero ohms to the spindle controller case. Make absolutely sure you have the power unplugged when doing this test !!!

    We are trying to discover is the case is ground to any terminal. Once we understand that aspect we will move on to the next step. The idea is we might need to take the common of the spindle output which is the Negative side of the DC power going to the spindle and attach that to the ground terminal. This would make sure the common side will not float and make lots of noise. Do not do this step until we understand if any terminals are actually designed as ground.

    Russ
    Ok, I did this with the power off. Black lead was attached to the case, the red one was put on all the terminals, one at a time. The meter returns 0L (infinite resistance) on all terminals.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Thanks for that last photo that helps. The label with 220V right above that connector had me confused. OK, so you have 220V attached to the far two right terminal where it says Power. You have confirmed no pins are attached to the case of the spindle controller. China does not seem to believe in grounds for some insane reason. What DC voltage does the spindle controller output to the motor? I know this varies as you turn the pot but lets say at full speed. The pulse form is changing as you turn the pot, so the faster it goes the DC voltage will increase to some degree. It appears to me the DC power to the motor is floating above any reference ground. After you measure the DC voltage going to the motor at full speed on the terminals at the spindle controller we can take the next steps. Have you tried moving the speed controller as far as possible away from the CNC controller yet? I am sure the lack of ground is causing a huge amount of EMI.

    Russ

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    What DC voltage does the spindle controller output to the motor? I know this varies as you turn the pot but lets say at full speed. The pulse form is changing as you turn the pot, so the faster it goes the DC voltage will increase to some degree. It appears to me the DC power to the motor is floating above any reference ground. After you measure the DC voltage going to the motor at full speed on the terminals at the spindle controller we can take the next steps.
    I measured the voltage on the signal pin, comming from the pot and the gnd wire (also connected to the pot). The voltage, when the spindle is at max, is 10V, which makes sense, since it is an alternative to the two left most terminals for auto control of the spindle (which also accept 0-10V). Then I tried measuring the DC output voltage on the two motor (spindle) terminals. The multimeter started behaving weird (rapidly changing values and the meter shutting off and turning back on), so I can't tell you what the values were.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Have you tried moving the speed controller as far as possible away from the CNC controller yet? I am sure the lack of ground is causing a huge amount of EMI.
    I did. I disconnected the stepper motor cables and tried turning it on/off at the same place, to check if the cables have any affect, but the issue persisted. Then I moved it about half a meter away of the controller and the pot and it appears to work better. I tried turning the machine on, with the pot set to max spindle speed, 10 times. The LCD issues appeared in the last two attempted tests, when I turned the machine on.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Yeah, the pulsated DC is causing the meter to get goofy. OK, let check something else. Set your meter back to ohms with everything turned off and unplugged from the wall. Now measure from the Motor common - negative lead and see if it is connected to the motor case. The Plus side should be going to the brushes inside the motor and the negative side should be going to the windings inside the motor. We are just checking to see if the winding a tied to the case. My guess is you will find them at infinite again. Then check to see if the motor case and your CNC frame are actually tied to ground by measuring between them to the ground lead. You can do all these tests with the power unplugged from the wall. See if you get a reading from your ground terminal to the cnc frame and the spindle motor.

    Russ

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    One more thing lets check the CNC controller side with a measurement. Check between the common - negative side to ground for power going to the CNC controller. Is that 12V common connected to ground?

    Russ

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Yeah, the pulsated DC is causing the meter to get goofy. OK, let check something else. Set your meter back to ohms with everything turned off and unplugged from the wall. Now measure from the Motor common - negative lead and see if it is connected to the motor case. The Plus side should be going to the brushes inside the motor and the negative side should be going to the windings inside the motor. We are just checking to see if the winding a tied to the case. My guess is you will find them at infinite again.
    You are correct. The meter showed infinite resistance. The body of the spindle appears to be wrapped in plastic (the meter didn't beep and showed infinite resistance when both leads were attached to it) so I made the measurements from its top, where the conductive material is exposed (its also exposed at the bottom of the spindle). I am attaching a picture which shows the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Then check to see if the motor case and your CNC frame are actually tied to ground by measuring between them to the ground lead. You can do all these tests with the power unplugged from the wall. See if you get a reading from your ground terminal to the cnc frame and the spindle motor.
    Ok, so the body is wrapped in plastics. I used the same spot as in the previous case, to test with ground and the meter showed infinite resitance. The frame consists of plastic parts and some steel tubes, which are not connected between themselves. Measuring each tube and ground earth terminal of the spindle controller (the screw) also showed infinite resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    One more thing lets check the CNC controller side with a measurement. Check between the common - negative side to ground for power going to the CNC controller. Is that 12V common connected to ground?

    Russ
    Ok. I'll go check this now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails measuredSpot.png  

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    The Plus side should be going to the brushes inside the motor and the negative side should be going to the windings inside the motor.

    Russ
    Brushes - Windings? Are you saying this is in fact a Universal - Series DC motor?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    One more thing lets check the CNC controller side with a measurement. Check between the common - negative side to ground for power going to the CNC controller. Is that 12V common connected to ground?

    Russ
    Meter returned infinite resistance also in this case. I measured from the "-" terminal on the Ramps (controller board) and the earth ground terminal of the PSU (which is tied to ground earth through the power cable). I made a picture, which shows the two spots, since I'm not entirely sure, I did this correctly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails controllerCheck.jpg  

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    OK, I want you to measure between that GREEN wire which is GROUND and the BLUE wire which is V-. Is that infinite? If so lets run a quick experiment. Take a new wire and connect the GREEN WIRE to the BLUE wire at the power supply. This will bring the negative side of the DC power supply output to Ground potential. Then go ahead and start up the CNC and make sure it is all working. Then turn on the spindle start with slower speed and see if the LCD remains on correctly, slowly increase speed if it starts out working with the spindle on low. This should not damage the CNC board many supply have the common side grounded but many have it floating.

    Russ

  13. #33

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    GreenCameleon...

    Picked up these latest emails and concur with most of the comments. But I think it’s time to use a screen cable powering the spindle motor earthed (grounded) at the the controller end - to the case and left unconnected at the spindle end to prevent ‘earth loops’. This will reduce electrical interference radiating from the cable suppling the spindle motor. The other thing that should be done is to shield the Arduino in a grounded metal case this will help any electrical noise from the spindle controller or the other switch mode power supply - and as a previous email mentioned, keep the ribbon cables routed away from any of the other cables.
    John


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    OK, I want you to measure between that GREEN wire which is GROUND and the BLUE wire which is V-. Is that infinite?
    Yes, it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    If so lets run a quick experiment. Take a new wire and connect the GREEN WIRE to the BLUE wire at the power supply. This will bring the negative side of the DC power supply output to Ground potential.
    I connected the green wire and the blue wire, which is right next to the green wire it and it tripped a breaker. You meant the blue wire, which connects to the Ramps board, right?

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnboy251 View Post
    GreenCameleon...

    Picked up these latest emails and concur with most of the comments. But I think it’s time to use a screen cable powering the spindle motor earthed (grounded) at the the controller end - to the case and left unconnected at the spindle end to prevent ‘earth loops’. This will reduce electrical interference radiating from the cable suppling the spindle motor. The other thing that should be done is to shield the Arduino in a grounded metal case this will help any electrical noise from the spindle controller or the other switch mode power supply - and as a previous email mentioned, keep the ribbon cables routed away from any of the other cables.
    John


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Understood. I'll get some screened cable.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    The GROUND wire when connected to V- wire trips the breaker? Really? We are trying to make the negative side of the 12V power supply at the same potential as ground. You have 12V going to the CNC board correct? What are the colors of the cables that provide power to the CNC board? I thought it was BROWN=+12V and BLUE=0V or the common side. Please provide more details.

    Russ

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    The GROUND wire when connected to V- wire trips the breaker? Really? We are trying to make the negative side of the 12V power supply at the same potential as ground. You have 12V going to the CNC board correct? What are the colors of the cables that provide power to the CNC board? I thought it was BROWN=+12V and BLUE=0V or the common side. Please provide more details.

    Russ
    No, I made a huge mistake and connected the green wire with the AC blue wire, instead of the one going from V-. Luckily everything still works. I'll retry the test tomorrow, hopefully connecting everything correctly that time. Thank you for your help, Russ!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    WOW, that is scary. Also why it is good practice to select the colors of the wires carefully. RED is typically +DC voltage, BLACK is typically -DC, Colors like RED or BLACK could also be AC lines. We you have to use uncommon wire colors especially like White you should always label them so they don't get confused. I am happy you did not damage the unit. Yes, connecting the AC line to GROUND will certainly trip a breaker. Yike.

    Russ

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    19

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    If so lets run a quick experiment. Take a new wire and connect the GREEN WIRE to the BLUE wire at the power supply. This will bring the negative side of the DC power supply output to Ground potential. Then go ahead and start up the CNC and make sure it is all working. Then turn on the spindle start with slower speed and see if the LCD remains on correctly, slowly increase speed if it starts out working with the spindle on low. This should not damage the CNC board many supply have the common side grounded but many have it floating.
    Russ
    Ok, I did the test. This time no incidents. I started with a slow speed on the spindle and gradually increased its speed to max. The issues with the LCD are still present, when the spindle is turned to more than 60% of its power. Also ordered a screened cable, which I'll replace with the existing spindle wires, as suggested by Johnboy251.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1723

    Re: 500w chinese spindle interference

    OK, yes you will need a braided shield cable to help with the spindle noise. The pulsating DC acts much like AC due to all the pulses turning it on and off very quickly. The shield of the new cable should be grounds on the spindle controller end. You spindle is mounted inside of plastic so you only ground it at one end. That should clean up your noise issue.

    Russ

Page 2 of 3 123

Similar Threads

  1. Upgrading my 3040 with a 500W spindle (replacing the 300W one)
    By MustangviennA in forum Chinese Machines
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-31-2019, 11:53 PM
  2. 500 watt DC spindle creates interference on arduino
    By Alectro in forum Spindles / VFD
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-26-2018, 10:53 AM
  3. Power 500W Spindle from 1/5kW VFD
    By ajayre in forum Spindles / VFD
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-12-2018, 12:24 PM
  4. Spindle Limit Switch Interference
    By Macca05 in forum Spindles / VFD
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-29-2018, 02:16 PM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-04-2014, 10:50 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •