[kstrauss]

That seems like a really good idea. Looking at the manual it appears that the Emerson VFD can provide output up to 1500Hz so that should not be a problem. Don't forget to power off the VFD before switching!

[rdsi]

RDSI, do you happen to have a Rapid Turn?

No Rapid Turn - I went with the 15L Slant Pro.

I made a separate control box/water cooler for my HS spindle to make it portable so I can use it on the Mill or my router table.
I also wanted a little more power than the mill VFD can handle.
Attachment 415240Attachment 415242Attachment 415244

Anyway, the mill VFD can certainly be used like you're suggesting.
Of course Tormach gets a pretty penny for their connector.
The VFD programming is pretty straight forward.
Since most of these HS spindles use 2 poles PP should display the correct RPM's when the HS spindle is selected using your spindle.

[MFchief]

I'm looking forward to trying it soon. Almost everything I do with the hi speed spindle is very small cutters, such as engraving, so I don't think the VFD power will be an issue for me.

Your setup sure looks sweet, and it makes good sense when you are moving it to more than one machine.

And, Kstrauss, definitely know to shut down before moving the cables, LoL Learned that one the hard way as a young sailor working on an old analog radar with a biga** pulse forming network!

Terry

[kstrauss]

And, Kstrauss, definitely know to shut down before moving the cables, LoL Learned that one the hard way as a young sailor working on an old analog radar with a biga** pulse forming network!

It would be easier for me to screw up since my Rapidturn cable is on a switch.

Could rdsi show a picture of how he mounted his HS spindle to the main spindle? I'm trying to decide how to mount mine and any ideas would be appreciated.

[MFchief]

Can't be positive it's still his current setup, but at the top of this thread, in his first post, is a link to an older thread which shows the HS spindle mounted.

Terry

[rdsi]

Could rdsi show a picture of how he mounted his HS spindle to the main spindle?

Here you go ...

Attachment 415350Attachment 415352

The attached zip file contains my CAD drawing (MillMount.stp). I use Rhino 3D & can upload just about any format if you need something different.
The bolt holes are for a M8 X 1.25mm X 45 mm Socket Head Screw, McMaster-Carr 91502A201 - something I had laying around.
As I recall I cut the profile, holes and milled the threads on the 1100, then I finished up the large holes & slit the ends on my manual mill. The big holes I finished off with a boring head to get them round, parallel, and perpendicular, before slitting the ends - something the Tormach is not very good at or at least my manual mill is better at.

[kstrauss]

Thanks! That is about what I had planned but was concerned that additional support might be necessary. My spindle is somewhat smaller than yours so no reason to bother converting; I can easily redraw.

[Fenichel]

Both my probe and my ETS are NC so I'm happy. .

I think I have just got the same ETS as you (sold as a SHINA SK-66; touch connection red & orange, NC; overtravel connection blue & green, NC; puffer present), but my 770 is ignoring it.

Sitting on my desk, the NC touch connection has a resistance of about 1 ohm untouched, off the scale (>66M) touched.

The supply voltages at the DIN-5 connector on my Tormach are at nominal values. With nothing connected, the voltage at the sense pin is +2.9 VDC. My touch probe (one of Cliff Hall's impact-tolerant probes) works fine connected here.

When I connect the ETS to the 770, with the red wire connected to either the +12 VDC supply (pin 3) or the +5 VDC supply (pin 1) and the orange wire connected to the sensing input (pin 5), the voltage at the sensing input is the same as that of the red wire untouched and +2.7 VDC touched.

My guess is that +2.7 VDC is too high, and that all might be well if I just threw a pull-down resistor into the circuit. I haven't tried this yet. Has anyone else had a similar problem with this ETS?

[kstrauss]

Shouldn't the ETS wires go to ground (pin 4 in the DIN5) and input (pin 5 in the DIN5)? I believe that the Tormach has a pullup resistor between +5 volt and the input pin. Search for PN 31039 in your Tormach Operator Manual for a schematic.

[Zetopan]

When I connect the ETS to the 770, with the red wire connected to either the +12 VDC supply (pin 3) or the +5 VDC supply (pin 1) and the orange wire connected to the sensing input (pin 5), the voltage at the sensing input is the same as that of the red wire untouched and +2.7 VDC touched.

Yikes! The probe wires should connect between the input sense and GROUND! The input has a pull-up resistor to +5VDC and the input is expecting to see a signal change between 5VDC and zero volts, in whatever direction your mill is set up for (positive for some and negative for others, mine is set up for positive which is an open circuit when my Renishaw probe contacts something).

[Fenichel]

Yes, of course. How could I have done that? Stay tuned to this channel for more bonehead adventures.

[MFchief]

So, sorry for going back to this thread again, but.......

I did get my ETS working and it seems to be very repeatable between activation's with the same tool in the spindle, but I was a little disappointed in the overall accuracy. In the 2-4" range where most of my tooling lives. I was getting a consistent error (long ) of around 1
to 1 and 1/2 thou. This was in comparison to my Fowler mechanical height gauge, which is pretty much dead on in this range with gauge blocks.

So I confirmed this error on the mill by setting gauge blocks on top of the ETS and doing a set tool length probe. I then adjusted the probe height setting on the machine to 0.0014 higher than the measured size. I had set the size using the procedure outlined by Entirely Crimson in his first video with the 1-2-3 block.

So the adjustment to the height setting gives me good tool lengths, to within just a few tenth's.

But the reason for this post is to ask everyone if I'm fooling myself here or is this a good idea?

RSDI, you mentioned earlier that the top of the ETS is threaded on, then held by a set screw. Is it possible this could be an adjustment to accomplish what I'm trying to do by massaging the height setting?

Terry

[kstrauss]

Why not use the procedure shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH319GVXqjs ? With this approach you don't need to be concerned with the height of your ETS.

[MFchief]

Hi Kstrauss,

Actually I have done it that way also, but the results for me were the same with both strategies, so I just mentioned the one to not be too long-winded. LoL
Terry

[rdsi]

RSDI, you mentioned earlier that the top of the ETS is threaded on, then held by a set screw. Is it possible this could be an adjustment to accomplish what I'm trying to do by massaging the height setting?

Not really, it's just how the unit is assembled. It is a good idea to loosen the set screw & make sure the top is fully screwed on tight, then tighten the set screw. Some people have complained about the top being loose causing erratic reading because of this.

I did get my ETS working and it seems to be very repeatable between activation's with the same tool in the spindle, but I was a little disappointed in the overall accuracy. In the 2-4" range where most of my tooling lives. I was getting a consistent error (long ) of around 1
to 1 and 1/2 thou. This was in comparison to my Fowler mechanical height gauge, which is pretty much dead on in this range with gauge blocks.

So I confirmed this error on the mill by setting gauge blocks on top of the ETS and doing a set tool length probe. I then adjusted the probe height setting on the machine to 0.0014 higher than the measured size. I had set the size using the procedure outlined by Entirely Crimson in his first video with the 1-2-3 block.

So the adjustment to the height setting gives me good tool lengths, to within just a few tenth's.

But the reason for this post is to ask everyone if I'm fooling myself here or is this a good idea?Terry

I'm not following you here?

Maybe this is related but the top carbide surface is not necessarily parallel to the base. Depending where you press on the ETS you can get a few thou variance across the surface of it. You can correct for this using the set screws mounted in the base. I just mounted the ETS in my grinder and made the two surfaces parallel so I wouldn't have to fuss with it. Also, the probing speed does affect your results. The faster you go the more offset you get although it is consistent. Somewhere I recorded these values but cannot find them at the moment...

[kstrauss]

Following up on RDSI's comments:
Is it possible that when measuring an actual tool it is near the centre of the top while with the spindle it is pressing on the edge of the top? I solved this problem with mine by making a spindle probe with a ball at the end. I carefully measured this "probe" and use it rather than the actual spindle. I wrote a little piece of gcode to automate the setup of tools. It first trips the ETS with my "probe" and then measures the actual tool and sets the tool table entry appropriately.

[MFchief]

I haven't disassembled the ETS yet to check on the possible looseness, and I haven't yet checked the parallelism of the top to the base.

I have been mindful of the possibility of that contributing to the error's I've seen. I did all of my checks with tools that had fairly small diameter's, 0.25" or less, and was careful to center the tool's over the ETS top.

When I set the tool length of the spindle nose in the beginning, I centered the forward most edge of the spindle in X and Y over the ETS. When using the gauge blocks, I centered them on the ETS as well.

I'm not sure which part of my description was the most unclear, (maybe all of it-LoL), but I am attaching pics of the ETS with a gauge block sitting on it the way is was when I simulated setting the length of a fictitious tool. Numer 1 is as tested, number 2 is just a perspective view of the block.

I haven't been able to get into the shop today, but my plan going forward is to first do the disassembly check then the parallelism check, then grind if necessary.

Terry

[jttoner]

I just picked up what appears to be the same ETS. Mine has four wires and no instructions. Which pair should use?

[kstrauss]

One further thought is the surface on the top. Mine is definitely not carbide and now shows small indentations from contact with the tools. These indentations are a thou or more deep and could affect measuring tool lengths but not be detected by the large surface area of gauge blocks.

[Fenichel]

If it is the same as mine, the wires are red, orange, blue, & green. The red & orange wires make up a normally-open circuit, closed when the device is touched. The blue green wires are another NO circuit, closed only when the device is pushed down almost to its limit.

The red/orange pair is the one you want. The blue/green pair is meant for some sort of alarm or emergency-stop use.