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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > CNC Swiss Screw Machines > please, how to check alignment for small tool ...
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    4131

    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    at this moment i don't know how is that possible, so to make the device trustfull
    hello, it's been a while, but i believe i know how to check a genswiss system; idea behind it that any measuring device has to be checked to be within specs, and if it is ok, then you may use it without worries

    is not enough to have a measuring device delivered with a certificate : a certificate means that it was ok when it left the manufacturer; whatever there is, periodical inspections are recomanded

    the question, about a geswiss, is if the housing is cilindrical ( that is an easy check ), and if camera is coaxial with the housing :
    ... take a vmc, trammed, with a centro in it's spindle
    ... put a collet chuck on the table, with the genswiss in it
    ... find the center of the genswiss, then repeat near the bottom, so to be sure that it is coaxial with the spindle
    ... remove the centro, and put a center drill inside the spindle; check it, so to have low tir
    ... turn on the genswiss system, and rotate the spindle; pulse handle z, so to get it in focus : this will give you some numbers, because the vmc axis has positioning accuracy / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    261

    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    I think you're over thinking this. I have used boring bars down to .016" min bore with a .009" Ø neck. Other than sweeping the drill pocket to within like.0002" and triple checking the initial touch off, i just set small boring bars like regular, just with more attention to initial precision. The flat tip set screws do a pretty good job of finding center. Make sure you center the flats as much as possible initially. Then tighten the screw, loosen just a tiiiiny bit, wiggle, tighten, loosen, wiggle, tighten. This will get the tool holder centered on the flat pretty darn well.

    If you watch the video for the Genswiss system, you will see that it accounts for runout of the guide bushing, so yes, it should give you true center within a couple tenths. (that is a couple ten thousandths of an inch or .005mm - plenty accurate, basically the same as a tool maker scope)

    If you dont want to fork out big bucks for the genswiss system, you could use the "face bar, stop spindle, jog off, cutoff, measure nib, offset" method. This is slow-ish and annoying to do each time you replace the tool, but if you're breaking bars consistently its worth it.

    If you offset a new tool minus a few thou, measure the first part then offset do you still have problems?

    Do you think you are breaking the tool because X is off, Z is off, or you centerline is off (cutting above/below center)?

    Also, can you program in some redundancy? If this is a known problem tool, can you lighten the DOC or feed so there is more strength in reserve to account for unexpected machining conditions? If you're right at the edge of stable with a perfect setup small issues become big issues quickly.
    CNC Product Manager / Training Consultant

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    4131

    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    you could use the "face bar, stop spindle, jog off, cutoff, measure nib, offset" method. This is slow-ish and annoying to do each time you replace the tool, but if you're breaking bars consistently its worth it
    hy mcimes, thank you for your reply please, can you describe a bit more this method ? i don't understand / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    261

    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    hy mcimes, thank you for your reply please, can you describe a bit more this method ? i don't understand / kindly
    This method can be used with any tool that is capable of facing the stock. (so it will not work with threading tools, backturns, etc)

    • Offset Y- on the tool you wish to center a little bit, like 0.1 or 0.2mm (I'll call this T2)
    • If the tool is not your main facing tool, face the bar with your Z0 tool (I'll call this T1), and touch off the other tool in Z (T2)
    • Advance the stock a little bit (This could be .1 to .5mm depending on tool size. As long as its enough to clearly see a nib under a microscope, its ok)
    • Face the bar with the tool you wish to set centerline on (T2)
    • Stop the spindle. Do not move Z at all. Jog X across the face of the bar until the tool is clear of the bar. This will scribe a shallow line across the face of the bar.
    • You will now have an intentional nipple left in the center of the part, since we offset T2 below center ~.1mm.
    • Advance the stock a few mm so you can catch a small slug of bar
    • Perform a cutoff and catch the end of the bar (wedge a basket under the guide bushing or something)
    • Take the cutoff piece over to some sort of optical measuring device like a Toolmaker Scope or an OGP / Keyence type visual CMM. Align the scribe mark on the face left by the tool with one of the cross hairs on the Scope. Measure the diameter of the cutoff nib from the scribe line to the opposite side of the nib.
    • Offset Y+ by half the diameter of the nib
    • You should now be within a couple tenths of true center if you measure carefully
    CNC Product Manager / Training Consultant

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    4131

    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    oh yes, thank you mcimes the problem what i have got, is that it was needed to remove the sleeve from the lathe, change the tool, then put the sleeve back with the new tool

    it was not possible to change the tool without removing the sleeve, because there was little clearance, thus tool nose was pretty close to the 'wall', and there was a lot of overhang for the sleeve

    it was not possible to achieve repetabiliy for that sleeve, each time it was in a different position ... it has been a while since that setup ended, but i believe i should measure the play between the bore and the sleeve, because i remember that i was able to take it out / put it back relatively easy ... too easy / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

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