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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > CNC Swiss Screw Machines > please, how to check alignment for small tool ...
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  1. #1
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    please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hello i have a small id turning knife ( image 00 ), that is mounted like in image 01

    each time i change that tool, i have to take out the sleeve from the machine, because there is not enough room inside the cabinet, so the keys won't fit ...

    when i put it back, is a gamble, and there is a big chance to have the tool misaligned, in X and/or Y

    i also can't check it's alignment, and, as a result, a new tool may break after machining 1 or 2 parts, especialy because the tool is small, so is very sensitive if not aligned properly

    problem is that there is too much overhang, and i can't achieve repetability when changing that tool, and also i can't check it's alignment ... pls, how to deal with this situation? i mean, is there a 'normal' approach ? kindly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 00.jpg   01.jpg  
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  2. #2
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    there are a couple of things that i can think of
    if the overhang is too much us a G50Wxxxx shift in the program to move the tool closer to the drill arm as long as the material is large enough to handle the overhang this might help with tool removal and replacement with out removing the tool holder
    check your set screws holding the tool some time they have a ball on the end of the screws change them to a flat nose screw or one that has been ground with a flat this will help keep the tool rotated more correct
    the piccco cut and the correct holder should put the tool on center as long as the screws are good so you shouldn't have to worry to much about being on center

  3. #3
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    the piccco cut and the correct holder should put the tool on center
    hi, i am afraid that this does not happen ... there is a play between the " id holder of the machine" and "sleeve that holds the tool" + other plays

    this play is not extraordinary big, but it still allows to put&remove the sleeve by hand, without too much effort, and so, the screws will tend to tilt a bit this sleeve, so missaligining will increase on tools with long overhang ... things simply sum up

    i just saw that there are even smaller piccos ( attached )

    hmm, maybe there is a method for aligning such tiny stuff / kindly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Untitled.jpg  
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  4. #4
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    Iscar have a holder designed to hold & orientate that boring bar for easier replacement...
    suggest you look at replicating their system
    ie. pointed grub screw in groove to orientate & flat grub screws to clamp

  5. #5
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hello superman, please, do you have a link to it ? or is it here : ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - PICCO R/L 050, 053, 055 : 6402330 - ?

    kindly

    ps : why i can't edit my " member " label, and how come you still have the " flies fast " ? aaa, not fair
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    hello superman, please, do you have a link to it ? or is it here : ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - PICCO R/L 050, 053, 055 : 6402330 - ?

    kindly
    yes
    ps : why i can't edit my " member " label, and how come you still have the " flies fast " ? aaa, not fair
    you are not looking hard enough... happy hunting... LOL

  7. #7
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    Swap the Picco tool with the drill in the bottom station and install the Picco tool and holder inverted (upside down). Boom, access to set screws. You will have to swap X+ for X- in your program, G2/G3 swap, as well as your comp direction and quadrant.

  8. #8
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    happy hunting... LOL
    hei superman, i am not sure, but i believe that some users with older accounts have some 'edit' possibilites, that are no longer available

    if i go :
    ... my profile (up) \ about me (tab) \ edit your about me (right label), then nothing happens
    ... setting (up) \ edit profile ( left bottom ), then attached interface appears, and i'm stuck

    is it enough hunting ?:drowning:

    Boom, access to set screws
    hi thunder, yup, this will allow acces to the screws, but i am still not sure if i will be on center ...

    of course, is better to avoid removing the sleeve from the lathe, and putting it back after, but even so, without removing the sleeve, the alignment has to be checked ; tools have broked inside the 1st or 2nd part ... and they are so tiny ... kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  9. #9
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    Install tool in holder, put holder in tool station, face off stock with turn tool, call up tool, touch tool off to face of stock, tighten holder set screws, jog Z1 forward .001", jog X1 X+ until tool is off of stock, cut off about .100-.200 of bar stock and catch that little coin, check the scored line on a tool scope to see how far over/under center you are, make adjustment to tool station core value to put the tool on center.

  10. #10
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hmm, sounds interesting, thank you very much

    i wonder, is it a good idea to scracth the surface with such a little tool ? i don't know

    most of the times, i am used to align without cutting, thus to be sure that when the tool will be mounted, it will be where it should be ... i am thinking about a method that does not involve the tool / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  11. #11
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    I do it all the time with tools that size. If you are worried the tool will chip, then use brass stock as it is more forgiving. I am very much in favor of putting your TOOL on center, not just your tool holder or tool station.

  12. #12
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hy thunder thank you for your ideas so far; they are great

    i have been thinking about this, like using a softer material, but this may require downtime with the feeder and with the lathe; so, maybe i should craft a sharp-point thing, like the one attached ( image 01 ), with dimensions pretty similar with the tool, and i could use it to scracth the material, so to find the center... after that i would remove it, and put the tool instead, and i would adjust the offset :
    ... for a drill, only Z
    ... for a mini id boring tool, i could measure the dimension WF from image 02, and compensate the X offset ( or Y, depending on orientation )

    I am very much in favor of putting your TOOL on center, not just your tool holder or tool station
    so true; tool station, tool holder and tool shank, each one is h7 or H7; also there is the play between them, excentricity caused by overhang, and the fact that their position is not the same, depending on how the screws are tightened ... all these little things sum up

    what else should i tell you ? hmm, i don't know thank you again
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  13. #13
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hy thunder, please, i have seen that you have an extra-sense when it comes to alignments; please, can you help me with this one ?

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/gener...lign-long.html

    kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  14. #14
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    I'll bet it's pricey, but well worth the money if you constantly deal with small tooling...

    https://www.genswiss.com/perfect-zero.htm

    Youtube video of system here...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWsXB7KzfI

  15. #15
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    nice tool / thx
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  16. #16
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    What you want to get is the picco ace holder I have linked here It requires a quarter turn to seat or realease the insert.

    Alo in my opinion the Genswiss is not accurate enough. It is an interesting idea, but must not accurate enough to justify the purchase.

  17. #17
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    hy jreynolds that thing from iscar is good 2 clamp the tool, but is not assuring coaxiality; only a sleeve and a cnc do not assure coaxiality, but a measuring & adjustment method

    Also in my opinion the Genswiss is not accurate enough
    somehow i also feel that; even if there is low tir when the device is clamped inside the guide bush ( and guide bushes are wear parts, etc ), also the camera has to be concentric with the od of the part, and i don't know how is possible to check that

    however, i was wondering if there is a variant to home-build such gadget i am not up2date with latest stuff, but i believe that a small camera concentric with the housing + wireless transmission, is not hard to find these days / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  18. #18
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    you could always blue the end of your stock and bring up the tool and scribe it with the tool then remove the stock and look at it. I have never really founf that the be a big issu.

  19. #19
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jreynolds5 View Post
    What you want to get is the picco ace holder I have linked here It requires a quarter turn to seat or realease the insert.

    Alo in my opinion the Genswiss is not accurate enough. It is an interesting idea, but must not accurate enough to justify the purchase.
    What are you talking about? The Genswiss system can center the tool within TENTHS RELIABLY. You say it's not accurate enough, yet go on giving advice of blueing the end of the bar and scribe a line? LOL

  20. #20
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    Re: please, how to check alignment for small tool ...

    What are you talking about? The Genswiss system can center the tool within TENTHS RELIABLY
    hi 369, to eliminate doubts, it is required to check :
    ... the alignment of the genswiss system; the camera center is coaxial with the housing ? they are never coaxial, so is needed to measure the excentricity, so to determine the precission class
    ... the resolution; that's easy

    TENTHS RELIABLY
    2.33 tens, or 0.7tens ?

    1.1 or 0.15 tens ?

    also, what does those numbers represent ? and how to check these numbers ?

    You say it's not accurate enough, yet go on giving advice of blueing the end of the bar and scribe a line?
    is not only about scribing the line, but also inspecting the scribbed line position with instruments with precision <0.01, like microscopes, etc

    this method takes longer than using the genswiss, but is possible to determine their precision pretty accurate

    a microscope acurracy&alignment can be checked, so it can be trusted, but it requires time to use it; to shorten that time, is easier to put the microscope/camera inside the cnc, but this 'alternative' also needs to be checked for accuracy & alignment ... at this moment i don't know how is that possible, so to make the device trustfull / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

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