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  1. #229

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Boys and Girls - I've built P3 from scratch up to the gantry and removed all the model niggles as I've gone along. I've aligned everything to the Nth degree and the model slides around nicely now. I have an assembly dwg for all of the 5 sub assemblies so far, there will be 11 subs. I rechecked the belt figures and geometry so that's all clear. The ATL10-25mm belt has a breaking strain of 1646kgf not that means much. Its recommended max service load in this configuration is 425kgf, I think it's half that for a U drive. So it will be very reliable. The recommended idler diameter for the U drive with this belt is 120mm! for the straight drive its 50mm so we are 55mm so all good. I have to estimate the pretension now these things are finalised, maybe 25-50kgf. I have found that a bend on the end of the gantry buttress comes and nudges the bearing bridge buttress so I have connected them together with a screw. I'll try to make this two screws soon. Once the assm dwgs are done its onto part dwgs, then nuts and bolts. Hmmm some way to go. It's the working week tomorrow and I have a 600Tonne trailer to analyse, slightly different to Max. The recommended belt tooth load at 100rpm is over 150kgf so I think all bases are covered with the belt. More to come... Peter

  2. #230

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Lads & Lassies - Today I made the first part dwg and tidied up the column bolts. So many holes to make and align and fill with a screw... On Scoot I have a tool board for clamps and spanners. Very handy. It also is the high spot for catenary cables to the gantry. I haven't used cable chains on my machines to date. Maybe this is the one. I use a 12 or 20 core flex cable. If I use the tool board I may be able to still go with the catenary....Peter

  3. #231

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    More work - I have started adding the curves to the parts as well. Not sure what the curve on an end of something like this is called. More holes... Peter
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Curves 1.JPG   curves 2.jpg  

  4. #232

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Y'all - Spent the evening watching a movie for a change but have managed to put in some backers. Try to get some parts going everyday. I once managed a Design Dept for an Automotive Accessories company and we designed and tested towbars to destruction including the car sometimes. Volvo has never forgiven me...We found that large backing plates did much better in transferring load then washers & nuts. Plus its easier to get the bolt started and snugged vs mucking around with nuts, washers and a spanner. Costs more but will provide a stiffer connection. Gets the metal out to the edges of the bends. Cheers Peter

  5. #233
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    33776

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Is this bracket welded together? If so, how do you prevent distortion?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bracket.JPG  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #234

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9826

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi All & Sundry - Question, can you get metric fasteners in USA easily? Maximus is designed for iso metric screws and I intend to provide a fastener list vs selling screws. No point in me selling screws & nuts. Is this a good plan? Peter
    Yes no problem with metric anything in the USA they have both inch and metric
    Mactec54

  7. #235

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Thanks Mactec and sharp eyes Gerry.

    The BRACKET ISSUE - Initially I tried to design some of these parts without welding being used. But some geometry and stiffness requirements just needs some sort of rigid connection. This part looks simple but is actually a complex item. Maybe a little long winded here but worth putting this out there I feel as it crosses many other issues.

    When I was close to the sheetmetal guys I personally brazed this sort of item or silver soldered them to minimise distortion. Which sometimes meant a double run to their place but being close didn't matter much. 2 years ago I moved 1.5 hours away from them so it's not a short run anymore. So two things to consider. 1) Finishing the parts either powdercoat or electropolish the parts need to stay at the metal place. Not economic for me to go there come home do the brazing take it back for them to finish 2) I tried a local powder coater and they applied 750um plus of paint, filled up 6mm holes with paint, tried to fix it blew it then tried to charge me for the repaint. So I have sworn off powdercoat. The powdercoated machine was intended for a trade exhibit here and the screwup meant we missed it which mucked up our intended product launch... so 3) The intended out come is to design the brackets with a slot and tab arrangement and slot TIG weld the back lightly with special instructions on flatness and squareness for the part. If we weld it then it can be electropolished. The two epolishes don't want brazed parts in their tanks. I have looked up the tank chemistry and it would be fine but that's their call.

    I have started testing my own DIY epolish system as the SS looks great when its polished. Also recently I had the company make a stainless steel mould for a carbon fibre part and the tab/slot TIG tack and small weld approach worked very well and that was a 3m long by 600mm wide mould. So I'm confident that it can be welded OK. Once I get my workshop up next year I'll go back to brazing or buy a tig but this maybe a good path. Got to do these things to find out.

    Peter

  8. #236
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    33776

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Question, can you get metric fasteners in USA easily?
    While we may be behind in some areas, we can get just about anything, and rather easily. Take a look at mcmaster.com. Anything you could want, usually delivered the next day for about $6 for small packages.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #237

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Gerry - Thanks for the info re bolts and others who have responded on that. In Oz companies use courier bags and it costs $20AUD to get most things from A to B. If they took the same package to the post office probably cost <$10AUD but they don't want to go to the post office. We do have mail order companies but not quite like Mcmasters etc. Suppliers in asia can supply small items FOC mail and that seems to be the trend here. Bearings, nuts bolts, metal bits etc probably put some of the Oz companies out of biz the way it's going. Times are a changing, back to mail order... Peter

    Gerry here's an image of the back of the bracket so you can see the tabs. Assembly is a bit tricky as you can't have two tabs at 90degs and have them engage. But it can be done just have to work out some entry angles. The surface of the tab is about 3mm under the surface of the bracket and they do about a 2mm weld. In this way the shrink direction pulls the tab into the slot. If you welded it on the outside it would cup the bracket. Cheers peter s

  10. #238

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    20

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Gerry - Thanks for the info re bolts and others who have responded on that. In Oz companies use courier bags and it costs $20AUD to get most things from A to B. If they took the same package to the post office probably cost <$10AUD but they don't want to go to the post office. We do have mail order companies but not quite like Mcmasters etc. Suppliers in asia can supply small items FOC mail and that seems to be the trend here. Bearings, nuts bolts, metal bits etc probably put some of the Oz companies out of biz the way it's going. Times are a changing, back to mail order... Peter

    Gerry here's an image of the back of the bracket so you can see the tabs. Assembly is a bit tricky as you can't have two tabs at 90degs and have them engage. But it can be done just have to work out some entry angles. The surface of the tab is about 3mm under the surface of the bracket and they do about a 2mm weld. In this way the shrink direction pulls the tab into the slot. If you welded it on the outside it would cup the bracket. Cheers peter s
    I have Tig welded similar assemblies and the issue is not to have any gaps or poor fits. If the bend is accurate enough and will conform to the "brace" with mild clamping to achieve full contact then movement is really minimized. Plus allow to air cool and not be in a hurry and quench cool. Laser cut tabs and slots are awesome IMO for the welder.

  11. #239

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    459

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi All - This mornings stuff is about details. More holes and checking things are exactly where they should be. A development model uses geometric references to align parts such as their mid-planes and axes. In this way they always line up where they "should" be even if the features aren't quite right. Development models need to change frequently so this is acceptable. But when it comes time for a manufacturing model you use features to line things up because it's the features that matter. If you use a plane you run the risk of unassociated holes or edges being misaligned. Another approach is to use related holes so when a master hole is moved or resized it moves all the slave holes but this takes more model management. The cam follower I wanted to use for the return pulleys is hard to get with a flat race so I have used a 5201 bearing. Same cost, easy to get. Same cost at VXB USA as from my local so that's now done. Back to more holes and screws....
    Peter

  12. #240

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    556

    Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    I was just looking at your drawing and dang that machine is going to be expensive to build, is the whole thing made from formed plate?

    Dan

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