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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking > MetalWork Discussion > please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?
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  1. #21
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    Mar 2015
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    You can use (a bunch of) aluminum foil, available in different sizes. The "kitchen" type is about 0.01 mm thick.

    Also copper will do, heat it up (red) and let it cool down, that makes it very soft. Use a press (hammer) to get it thinner to almost the right size. Then heat it up one more time, and use it to shim the turret. When it is bolted on, it will be pressed, causing it to shrink a little bit and harden. Copper seals use the same principle!

    Plastics like nylon absorb water (coolant) and get thicker. Other types like PTFE (Teflon) keep getting thinner under pressure. You could use POM that doesn't absorb water and is pretty stable under pressure.

  2. #22
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    hi hfjbus, i was given a piece of aluminium from a metal can, which is 0.10thick, and had rough edges, so i did not used it

    so far i did not know about the 0.01 "kitchen" type; are these for sale ?

    about copper, thanks for the tip, but i wish to avoid the "preparation" time i mean, even if it works, i preffer to avoid it

    Plastics like nylon absorb water (coolant) and get thicker
    yes, this is what i am afraid of ... but, in that area where i put plastic, it is not exposed directly to coolant, so, if it degrades, i guess that it will not be sudden, but in time, and this may be detected by regular alignment inspection ( like once at 2-3 days eg ); that's my bet so far

    Other types like PTFE (Teflon) keep getting thinner under pressure. You could use POM that doesn't absorb water and is pretty stable under pressure
    is there laminated teflon or pom, like 0.05 foils ? i don't know / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    74

    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    i have not had any issue with plastic shims and coolant (i think that might depend on your coolant type. we have a a complete set of plastic shims (store bought), that we cut to our needs.
    how are you holding onto the drill?

  4. #24
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    hi walker

    we have a a complete set of plastic shims (store bought)
    pls, what thickness ?

    how are you holding onto the drill?
    drill > sleeve > toolholder > turret .... or what ? i am sorry, maybe i did not understood what you are asking / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  5. #25
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    Apr 2016
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    i was just curious to see how you are holding the drill.
    our shims go from .0005" to .050".

  6. #26
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    Mar 2015
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    409

    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    so far i did not know about the 0.01 "kitchen" type; are these for sale ?
    This is the foil you can buy in every grocery. In a specialized bakery shop, you can get thicker foils.
    is there laminated teflon or pom, like 0.05 foils ? i don't know
    You shouldn't use teflon because it is unstable under pressure.
    0.05 mm plastic foil is pretty thin and a problem to handle. I don't know in what thickness pom sheets material is sold. A quick search results in 0.1 mm PVC film and 0.125mm Mylar Film. Mylar film is easier to handle, I use it some times (0.12 mm thick)

  7. #27
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    hi walker, yup, i believe i have to buy some shims ...

    i was just curious to see how you are holding the drill
    ok ... i am not talking about deepholes or gundrilling, but <10 D

    i may go like this :
    ... static holder + sleeve + drill + 5mm shim ( screws are not pushing the drill shank, but the shim )
    ... static holder + sleeve + er collet + bearing nut + drill
    ... live holder + er collet + bearing nut + drill

    from all those above, 1st one has good repetability, and it is more rigid; 2nd & 3rd does not have good repetability, and are less rigid, because the collet has elastic behaviour

    so far, did you noticed an increased repetability when using one kind of setup, and less repetability with others ? kindly



    hi hfjbuis

    This is the foil you can buy in every grocery. In a specialized bakery shop, you can get thicker foils
    before you replied, i was thinking if i should ask for quote at the vendors that i work with, or if i should simply take a trip across the town bakery shop sounds perfect : please, i want some pie and some shims .... kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  8. #28
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    hi skywalker, please :
    ... when you align, even if the tool is paralel to z axis, how do you check to be also colinear with the spindle ? and, if it is not colinear, how do you adjust ?
    ... did you noticed an increased repetability when using one kind of setup, and less repetability with others ?

    kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  9. #29
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    Apr 2016
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    i put a indicator in the spindle, sweep pocket in the front and in the back.
    if i am picturing what you are doing, you can try, indicating on top and then on the front or back of the tool.
    let me know.........

  10. #30
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    hi, turret and holder attached

    holder + sleeve + tool

    before the tool, i put a loong shank in there

    i move the dial indicator along the shank :
    ... dial is among Y axis, and, if shank is not paralel, i simply rotate the holder
    ... after that, i rotate the dial 90*, so now it is among X axis, and, if it is not paralel, i put some shims between holder & turret

    so far, this delivers a shank paralel to the spindle; now, i have to put it coaxial, so i use a center indicator, or a test indicator

    if something is wrong in X axis, i adjust X axis, but what if something is wrong on Y axis ?

    is it ok ? did i explained ok ? kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  11. #31
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    are you using "Y" axis for this tool?
    ours has y, but we never have used it. when okuma was here to align it, i watched, it was all in the settings, nothing mechanical.
    for drilling do you need to check y?

  12. #32
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    for drilling do you need to check y?
    especially for long carbide; hss is not so pretentious, but is ok to check also for hss
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  13. #33
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    Yes, i can see this now.
    it would have to zero at it home position.
    I cannot help on the alignment for "y", sorry.

  14. #34
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    an Y lathe makes it easy, but i was wondering about lathes without Y

    you do the gundriling on another machine, not on okuma ?
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  15. #35
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    lathes without y are simple to align. nothing like doing the y on an okuma with a subspindle.
    we make gundrills here, i used to run the okuma and mazak and doosan lathes we have.
    now im programming.

  16. #36
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    i am ok with okuma y lathes alignments ( low force ), geometry, encoders zeros, calibrations, etc

    so you make gundrils ? thus, you make tools ? kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  17. #37
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    i will try to remember that next time that okuma is out of whack. lol

    good luck, let know how it goes.

  18. #38
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    so far i did not worked on okumas with subspindles, but only with programable tailstock ..... hmm

    about crashes, colisions, etc, i am using "my own" methods for load monitor, and i can monitorize even rapids

    this requires a nice post-processor to implement it inside all programs, using machine specific limits, thus not able to run same program on another machine ... if you wish, i can tell you more; i did not shared this inside the okuma forum, because it was developed 2 months ago, so, it is relatively new / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  19. #39
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    we do have one okuma lb3000 with a tailstock osp300pl

  20. #40
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    Re: please, i need a " trick " : how to align a long drill on a misaligned turret ?

    when okuma was here to align it, i watched, it was all in the settings, nothing mechanical
    our okuma dealer, for whatever intervention, in some cases, sent 2 guys : one novice, and another more experimented; however, i don't agree with some of their procedures, but, overall, is ok

    even if turret geometry is within factory specs ( or even lower, because, even if factory specs may be > few hundreds, real alignment after shipment, or after service intervention, is < 3um ), this does not mean that also the tool is aligned; there are some plays that sum-up

    also, even if mechanically things are ok, there may be a shift inside the encoders origin, but this is another story

    i will try to remember that next time that okuma is out of whack
    such situations require quick reaction, and everyone likes to avoid delays

    if you wish, we can discuss a few procedures in advance / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

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