[Chris D]

I have a siglent, SDS1102CML+ scope, it is digital and can do a whole lot more than I can!

I use it about once a year, usually for measuring frequency of signals coming out of a microcontroller etc.

Chris

[Chris D]

Easy L1 and N1 is the same going straight through the Filter Ground must be connect to the filter and if it does not have a Ground post on the output side, which it does not need, Ground then connects to the input side of the filter then to the VFD Drive


so if you see

L=L1

N=L2

PE =Ground

You don't use or have a Neutral for NA 240v single phase, so don't get it confused with Ground both serve a different purpose

Attachment 420750

Just to make sure I don't blow this thing up...

on the Line side, I connect each hot wire to each terminal on the input side, I connect a ground wire to the ground terminal on the input side.
on the Load side, I connect one terminal to "R" and the other terminal to "T" on the VFD
I also connect a ground wire from the INPUT side to the ground terminal on the VFD.

Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

Chris D

[wmgeorge]

I don't see a terminal for a ground in your picture? But the case is metal and should be mounted on grounded metal. The insulated terminals is where L1 & L2 connect too, the output goes to the input on the VFD. You could use some RTV or the like silicone sealer to insulate.

[Chris D]

Thanks for responding so quick!

The ground terminal is on the input side, I somehow had the camera in perfect alignment so that one of the load terminals covers the Ground terminal.

Chris D

[mactec54]

Attachment 420750

Just to make sure I don't blow this thing up...

on the Line side, I connect each hot wire to each terminal on the input side, I connect a ground wire to the ground terminal on the input side.
on the Load side, I connect one terminal to "R" and the other terminal to "T" on the VFD
I also connect a ground wire from the INPUT side to the ground terminal on the VFD.

Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

Chris D

Correct you have your wiring figure as it should be , the only easy way to protect your self from a accidental is to put a screen mash cover over it this is quite common to do

When you do mount the filter, the mounting surface should be free of paint just like anything else that you are Grounding to a metal surface

[wmgeorge]

Never use metal unless its something like 16 gauge steel to protect terminals, use an insulator of some sort.

[ericks]

I agree....insulating material of some sort. If it were me i would place an acrylic cover over it

[mactec54]

Never use metal unless its something like 16 gauge steel to protect terminals, use an insulator of some sort.

All machine manufacturers use metal covers like this for anything to do with EMI Protection or when ever they have to cover something like this

[wmgeorge]

All machine manufacturers use metal covers like this for anything to do with EMI Protection or when ever they have to cover something like this

The question was about Insulation, not EMI protection. He needs no EMI protection inside a grounded metal enclosure just to add a filter!

Reposted here > Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

[ericks]

This device already has a metal shield...no need to add another. Most important here is to isolate the live parts against accidental touch

[mactec54]

The question was about Insulation, not EMI protection. He needs no EMI protection inside a grounded metal enclosure just to add a filter!

Reposted here > Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

That's what they use, he choose to buy that type of filter, when you use a filter like this that has spade connections you don't have this problem

[wmgeorge]

That's what they use, he choose to buy that type of filter, when you use a filter like this that has spade connections you don't have this problem

What are you talking about?

He asked about Insulation for the one he purchased. You posted a picture of a EMI/RFI metal shield.

[mactec54]

This device already has a metal shield...no need to add another. Most important here is to isolate the live parts against accidental touch

This is what is used in all installations like this that have exposed connections like this it is a OSHA electrical safety requirement, this may be slightly different in Australia but they have regulations also for this type of protection requires a screen to be compliant

GUARDING OF LIVE PARTS ( this is from OSHA safety electrical requirements )

It should be noted that the purpose of this requirement is to protect any person who may be in the vicinity of electrical equipment against accidental contact. These people are presumably not electricians working on the equipment, and are not qualified or trained to be in close proximity to live parts.

Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:
By suitable permanent, substantial partitions or screens so arranged that only qualified persons will have access to the space within reach of the live parts. Any openings in such partitions or screens shall be so sized and located that persons are not likely to come into accidental contact with the live parts or to bring conducting objects into contact with them. It is good practice to use covers, screens or partitions which can only be removed by use of tools, so that unqualified persons are less likely to violate them.


Enjoy I suggest you check Australia's electrical requirement's for this, Hobby electrical requires the same protection as any other electrical installation

[mactec54]

What are you talking about?

He asked about Insulation for the one he purchased. You posted a picture of a EMI/RFI metal shield.

Read my next post it is a OSHA Electrical safety requirement Hobby builders are not exempt these requirement's, it has vey little to do with being a EMI shield stop trying to make up something that it is not

[ericks]

Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you

[wmgeorge]

What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?

[mactec54]

What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?

Here is the full OHSA requirement's, it defiantly is correct, and is not misinformation, so stop pretending that you know different just because you have trouble understanding what the requirements are, sorry about the OSHA name spelling I have corrected it


What I posted came from there requirments

[mactec54]

Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you

You don't have to reply your choice (nuts)

It's what you posted not what you do, no one really cares what you do just post what is normal for installation's like this with safety in mind :nono:

[ger21]

If you disagree, state your case and move on. I'll ban anyone that continues to argue. Adults acting like 5 years olds gets really tiring.
Consider this a final warning.

[Chris D]

Update and current status...

There were two ways I was able to monitor the problem: False triggers of buttons from the operator panel and my Scope. Being that the false triggers appeared to come from the buttons and switches attached to the I-PAC (keyboard emulator), I figured I would connect my scope to that device which is located inside the operator panel.

Here is a trace that was captured with the spindle running. The spikes were about 3.8 volts as measure on one of the inputs to the I-PAC. With about 30 inputs on the I-PAC, I was getting some really strange things happening.
Attachment 420874

Trying to determine if the noise is conducted or radiated, I removed the cable from between the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. The voltage spike is reduced to about 2 volts. Being that, aside from the AC power, there was no mechanical connection and the voltage spikes are still present, I could only assume I had both, conductive and radiated noise. At this level, there were no problems of false triggers and the machine ran fine. Here is the trace showing that.
Attachment 420882

From the advice of Mactec, I purchased and installed a line filter. At first I didn't understand how that would even help this problem, but then I realized this device is very similar to a "Reactor" which is used on industrial CNC machines for preventing noise issues. This is the link to the line filter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Once installed, there was an immediate improvement in the noise levels...
Attachment 420876


However, the presumably radiated noise was still there. As this did not affect operation of the machine, I wasn't too worried about it.

I continued to tidy up the wires and prepare to close up the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. I performed one last check with the scope. During my tidy up process, more improvement occurred, unfortunately, I have no idea what changed to remove the radiated noise. I know I pushed all the wires back into the plastic conduit, I recall reattaching the 220VAC ground wire be (from source) and at the line filter and I am sure I did a few more things but can't recall all the details. Here is the trace before I closed everything up..
Attachment 420884

Knowing that I had a working system at one point, then this noise issue came up, I am not 100% certain the problem isn't fixed. The problem very well could come back again but for now I am a happy camper.

Here is a photo inside the electrical cabinet just before closing. The Line filter was attached to the 35 Volt power supply, probably not the best thing to do, but currently there are no ill effects and it was a handy place to mount it. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was worried about accidental shocks being that the posts on this thing are fully exposed, I designed and 3D printed a red cover for it so that it would be a bit more safe then being fully exposed.


What a nightmare this problem was and to deal with. I am hoping that it is over and I learned a few things along the way.

Thank you to all of you guys for your help and guidance!

Chris D