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  1. #73

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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by ericks View Post
    This device already has a metal shield...no need to add another. Most important here is to isolate the live parts against accidental touch
    This is what is used in all installations like this that have exposed connections like this it is a OSHA electrical safety requirement, this may be slightly different in Australia but they have regulations also for this type of protection requires a screen to be compliant

    GUARDING OF LIVE PARTS ( this is from OSHA safety electrical requirements )

    It should be noted that the purpose of this requirement is to protect any person who may be in the vicinity of electrical equipment against accidental contact. These people are presumably not electricians working on the equipment, and are not qualified or trained to be in close proximity to live parts.

    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:
    By suitable permanent, substantial partitions or screens so arranged that only qualified persons will have access to the space within reach of the live parts. Any openings in such partitions or screens shall be so sized and located that persons are not likely to come into accidental contact with the live parts or to bring conducting objects into contact with them. It is good practice to use covers, screens or partitions which can only be removed by use of tools, so that unqualified persons are less likely to violate them.


    Enjoy I suggest you check Australia's electrical requirement's for this, Hobby electrical requires the same protection as any other electrical installation
    Mactec54

  2. #74

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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    What are you talking about?

    He asked about Insulation for the one he purchased. You posted a picture of a EMI/RFI metal shield.
    Read my next post it is a OSHA Electrical safety requirement Hobby builders are not exempt these requirement's, it has vey little to do with being a EMI shield stop trying to make up something that it is not
    Mactec54

  3. #75
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you

  4. #76
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


    Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

    Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  5. #77

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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


    Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

    Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?
    Here is the full OHSA requirement's, it defiantly is correct, and is not misinformation, so stop pretending that you know different just because you have trouble understanding what the requirements are, sorry about the OSHA name spelling I have corrected it


    What I posted came from there requirments
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Mactec54

  6. #78

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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by ericks View Post
    Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you
    You don't have to reply your choice (nuts)

    It's what you posted not what you do, no one really cares what you do just post what is normal for installation's like this with safety in mind :nono:
    Mactec54

  7. #79
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    If you disagree, state your case and move on. I'll ban anyone that continues to argue. Adults acting like 5 years olds gets really tiring.
    Consider this a final warning.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  8. #80
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Update and current status...

    There were two ways I was able to monitor the problem: False triggers of buttons from the operator panel and my Scope. Being that the false triggers appeared to come from the buttons and switches attached to the I-PAC (keyboard emulator), I figured I would connect my scope to that device which is located inside the operator panel.

    Here is a trace that was captured with the spindle running. The spikes were about 3.8 volts as measure on one of the inputs to the I-PAC. With about 30 inputs on the I-PAC, I was getting some really strange things happening.
    Attachment 420874

    Trying to determine if the noise is conducted or radiated, I removed the cable from between the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. The voltage spike is reduced to about 2 volts. Being that, aside from the AC power, there was no mechanical connection and the voltage spikes are still present, I could only assume I had both, conductive and radiated noise. At this level, there were no problems of false triggers and the machine ran fine. Here is the trace showing that.
    Attachment 420882

    From the advice of Mactec, I purchased and installed a line filter. At first I didn't understand how that would even help this problem, but then I realized this device is very similar to a "Reactor" which is used on industrial CNC machines for preventing noise issues. This is the link to the line filter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Once installed, there was an immediate improvement in the noise levels...
    Attachment 420876


    However, the presumably radiated noise was still there. As this did not affect operation of the machine, I wasn't too worried about it.

    I continued to tidy up the wires and prepare to close up the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. I performed one last check with the scope. During my tidy up process, more improvement occurred, unfortunately, I have no idea what changed to remove the radiated noise. I know I pushed all the wires back into the plastic conduit, I recall reattaching the 220VAC ground wire be (from source) and at the line filter and I am sure I did a few more things but can't recall all the details. Here is the trace before I closed everything up..
    Attachment 420884

    Knowing that I had a working system at one point, then this noise issue came up, I am not 100% certain the problem isn't fixed. The problem very well could come back again but for now I am a happy camper.

    Here is a photo inside the electrical cabinet just before closing. The Line filter was attached to the 35 Volt power supply, probably not the best thing to do, but currently there are no ill effects and it was a handy place to mount it. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was worried about accidental shocks being that the posts on this thing are fully exposed, I designed and 3D printed a red cover for it so that it would be a bit more safe then being fully exposed.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	E-Cabinet.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	111.3 KB 
ID:	420886

    What a nightmare this problem was and to deal with. I am hoping that it is over and I learned a few things along the way.

    Thank you to all of you guys for your help and guidance!

    Chris D

  9. #81

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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
    Update and current status...

    There were two ways I was able to monitor the problem: False triggers of buttons from the operator panel and my Scope. Being that the false triggers appeared to come from the buttons and switches attached to the I-PAC (keyboard emulator), I figured I would connect my scope to that device which is located inside the operator panel.

    Here is a trace that was captured with the spindle running. The spikes were about 3.8 volts as measure on one of the inputs to the I-PAC. With about 30 inputs on the I-PAC, I was getting some really strange things happening.
    Attachment 420874

    Trying to determine if the noise is conducted or radiated, I removed the cable from between the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. The voltage spike is reduced to about 2 volts. Being that, aside from the AC power, there was no mechanical connection and the voltage spikes are still present, I could only assume I had both, conductive and radiated noise. At this level, there were no problems of false triggers and the machine ran fine. Here is the trace showing that.
    Attachment 420882

    From the advice of Mactec, I purchased and installed a line filter. At first I didn't understand how that would even help this problem, but then I realized this device is very similar to a "Reactor" which is used on industrial CNC machines for preventing noise issues. This is the link to the line filter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Once installed, there was an immediate improvement in the noise levels...
    Attachment 420876


    However, the presumably radiated noise was still there. As this did not affect operation of the machine, I wasn't too worried about it.

    I continued to tidy up the wires and prepare to close up the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. I performed one last check with the scope. During my tidy up process, more improvement occurred, unfortunately, I have no idea what changed to remove the radiated noise. I know I pushed all the wires back into the plastic conduit, I recall reattaching the 220VAC ground wire be (from source) and at the line filter and I am sure I did a few more things but can't recall all the details. Here is the trace before I closed everything up..
    Attachment 420884

    Knowing that I had a working system at one point, then this noise issue came up, I am not 100% certain the problem isn't fixed. The problem very well could come back again but for now I am a happy camper.

    Here is a photo inside the electrical cabinet just before closing. The Line filter was attached to the 35 Volt power supply, probably not the best thing to do, but currently there are no ill effects and it was a handy place to mount it. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was worried about accidental shocks being that the posts on this thing are fully exposed, I designed and 3D printed a red cover for it so that it would be a bit more safe then being fully exposed.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	E-Cabinet.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	111.3 KB 
ID:	420886

    What a nightmare this problem was and to deal with. I am hoping that it is over and I learned a few things along the way.

    Thank you to all of you guys for your help and guidance!

    Chris D
    Most likely had a lot to do with when you reconnected the Ground, glad you where able to see what the Power Filter can do, A power filter is a cheap replacement for a reactor, and can almost do the same job, if everyone that installs a VFD did this it would solve a lot of there problems, Grounding of course is a number 1 problem most of the time, switch mode power supplies can be another source of noise which should have a Power filter also, or any DC Power supply in general, the coils of wire will create a magnetic field around them also, but may not cause to much of a problem as they are away from the Breakout Board area

    Cover looks good and Ideal 3D printers can save the day but if someone does not have one any type of cover material will do the job if a cover is needed for safety

    If your switches are noisy then you may need a cap / snubber across them
    Mactec54

  10. #82
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Nice job on the Insulating common sense cover for the filter. Glad we could help, and your scope like mine helped finalize the job insuring there were no more issues
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  11. #83
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Chris i am glad you got it sorted....hope it goes well from here

  12. #84
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    Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    A bit more information that may help others...

    There was a bit of discussion as to how to ground shields and star grounding etc. I do not wish to continue that discussion or further debate on either side of right or wrong, however, I did take a few photos of how I have seen this done on high-end CNC equipment. These photos are from a Japanese built 5 axes CNC machine.



    STAR GROUNDING -- often this is explained as a bolt or stud on the side of an electrical cabinet and ALL wires somehow magically stacked up on that single lug. This is the same principle but far more practical and certainly a lot more practical to implement.
    Attachment 421114

    As you will quickly recognize in this photo, this machine uses a FANUC control. These cables are servo and encoder cables. Notice the "grounding bar" for the shielding and how the clamps press against the shield. Also of note is how the insulation is cut away in the "middle" of the cable for the grounding and yet allows for the shield to continue to the connector (end) of the cable. I thought that this was very interesting. This style of shield grounding has been used in many different industrial CNC machines over the years that I have been working on.
    Attachment 421116
    Attachment 421118

    Just thought that these examples of star grounding and shield grounding could be useful to others.

    Chris D.

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