584,860 active members*
5,305 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking > Diemaking / Diecutting > Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press
Page 1 of 3 123
Results 1 to 20 of 51
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    I needed a clicker press to make my own gaskets so I bought a new one. Because its in my garage which has 110v with 30A service I was able to special order one with a 2 HP/ 110v motor which draws 20A. Its 10 ga wire from the garage breaker box to the motor.

    When I try to start the press it trips the main 30A circuit breaker almost immediately. The press has a cast iron flywheel on the shaft that I'm guessing weighs 40-50 lbs, so this creates a lot of drag on start up for the motor. Does anyone have experience with the amperage spike on start up with motors attached to a flywheel? My guess is the amp spike on start up is going over 30A, but don't know how to get around this problem.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    170

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Most induction motors will draw about 6 times the normal full load operating current until it achieves full speed, You don't say what the time rating of your breaker is. They usually are marked with a letter A B C or D, A is the fastest, D is the slowest, so fitting a "D" rated might help otherwise you will need a soft starter to get that flywheel up to speed.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Good info, thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    The first thing I would do is replace the 30 amp breaker with a new one from your local hardware store. I have seen breakers get weak over time. That would be the easy fix if it works.

    If you can find a D curve breaker that will fit your panel, then that might work. A D curve breaker has a higher short term overload capability, but I don't know if they are available for common breaker panels. Maybe check with your local electrical supply for availability.

    The other option is to rewire your garage to handle the additional load.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    The breaker is new, from Lowe's, but I see that all the ones they (and Home Depot) sell are Type A.
    Good point about a type D fitting the panel. I'm wondering if type B or C won't be all that's needed, and if I put in one with too long a trip rating will cause a problem somewhere else, like overheated wiring? Thanks!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    As long as your wiring is rated for 30 amps (min #10), the D curve breaker will protect it. But maybe a B or C would work for you.

    Another idea might be to make a mechanical ''clutch'' system for the press. Have a lever system that allows the motor to start unloaded then control the load on the motor by slipping the belt until the flywheel is up to speed, then lock it in with the overcenter toggle action. A lot of work, but would be a good solution. I have seen this system used for high start load machines.

    Is it not possible to wire your garage for 240V? I'm guessing that your motor is a 120/240 motor.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    170

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    If the motor is dual voltage you could add another contactor or switch and then start the motor connected to the 240 terminals then change over when full speed is obtained, a little like a start/delta starter. I know it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation but do you know how long it takes to achieve full running speed ?.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Since the garage had 110V and its just a 2HP motor I opted to just go with a 110v motor and not have the extra expense of rewiring it for 220V. I didn't count on the big amp draw though.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    I wish I knew the amp draw on start up so I can know which way to proceed, like you say a "chicken or egg" thing. Hopefully the manufacturer can provide more info for me tomorrow. By the way, there is also a breaker on the press itself, near the control panel.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    170

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    It should take around 14 amps under full load, though that will be highly dependent on how you use it. while it is idling it could be just 2 -3 amps. Starting could take well over 50 amps for a few seconds while it speeds up the flywheel. I am assuming this is a single phase motor. Do you know what type of motor it is, if it is the type with a centrifugal switch built into it then it will take lots of current. As a rule they do not take kindly to starting an inertial load such as a flywheel they can easily burn out in just a few seconds. The capacitor start/run motors are not much better in this respect. I know it is a bit late and not very helpful but you may have been better off using a three phase motor with an inverter. You can get soft starters which reduce the inrush current for a period of time that work with single phase motors.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Yes, a single phase 2 HP. The press is from China and don't know what type motor it is, but I would think they chose a motor that would not have a problem spinning a flywheel on start up. There was residual oil in it when it was delivered so I can see they test ran it. I'm worried if I just change the breaker in the garage to a type C, the breaker in the house which is also a 30A will probably trip instead, making it necessary to install two type C breakers. A soft starter may be the best option at this point. How would I size a soft starter? Maybe I will get the amp draw info at start up from the manufacturer tonight. If I do then I will know how to size the soft starter. It would have been nice if they brought up this subject and I could have had one installed by them from the factory.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press


    The 2 HP motor with the flywheel behind it on the clicker press
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Clicker Press + Rack 2.jpg  

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    I had a reply from the chinese manufacturer tonight. Not much help there, says the current draw at start up is 13.6A which is not likely.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    13.6 is a bit light, given that the full load amps is around 20. I'm guessing more like 40 to 50 amps for the first fraction of a second and then dropping off as the motor speeds up. Locked rotor amps on a 2 hp motor is about 150 @ 120V, but you should never see that much.

    One thing that might help is to increase the value of the start capacitor, or add another in parallel to get around 800 mF total. This will give the motor a little more kick for starting. It's been my experience that Chinese motors many times come with start and run capacitors that are a bit light.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1267

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    What is the breaker inside the machine rated at?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    I was just looking at the pictures, do I see a green and black wire connected to the left side of the breaker? Many times the Chinese will use a green wire for power and the green/yellow for ground. If you have it wired to your plug with the green connected to ground and black to hot, then you have a dead short. Also I don't see a ground on the motor or the machine frame.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    170

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    I don't think the Chinese bother with trivialities like ground connections, I wonder what the motor speed is, that flywheel looks like it is made from cast iron, I hope it is well balanced and there are no cracks in it, there might be an almighty bang if that is a two pole motor (3000 rpm) and it lets go. To me it just does not look right, an industrial machine like this would be three phase with a star delta starter or use a viscous coupling or something similar. My guess is that the manufacturer did not have any kind of breaker or fuses when they tested it, assuming it was tested in the first place. The start winding's on that motor are going to noticeably heat up during a start up no matter what you do, a motor of that type is going to have a hard time bringing that flywheel up to speed. I was wondering if it would be possible to use current limiting inrush resistor or adding extra inductance by adding a choke, no matter what you do there will always be heat build up in the start winding's. Looking at the first post I am assuming that this is not the normal motor that would have been fitted, do you know what that the standard motor option would have been ?. My guess is it would be three phase.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Quote Originally Posted by iWAYNE View Post

    The 2 HP motor with the flywheel behind it on the clicker press
    Who wired the input power, you should not have a Ground wire going to the Breaker in the machine cabinet, if there was a problem with the motor drawing too much current at startup that breaker would trip before your 120v mains supply

    You have a double pole Breaker at your machine, this would be only used for a 220/240v Single Phase supply

    So it is wired incorrect for 120v Single Phase

    So you have a wiring Problem, that needs to be corrected, before you do some damage
    Mactec54

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    Yes, the wires they use coming out of the breaker in the machine are green and red with no ground. They used a 3-part wire cable but the third is not used. I don't know if they use different colors for different polarities there or its a mistake by them.

    I believe they test ran it as i said because there is residual hydraulic fluid in it that was pumped out after testing. They would have caught any wiring mistake if there was one. The wire that was hooked up to the cable going to the outlet box for the machine can be seen on the lower left, to the left of the breaker. Its just two wires, green and red.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tripping Breaker on New Clicker Press

    This is the way it came from the manufacturer, what you see here. The 2 pole breaker label doesn't give the amps, just says
    "400V
    50 hz
    6000V"
    The 50 hz concerned me and the manufacturer did not answer me when I questioned why it was not 60 hz. From what I have read 50 hz can be used on 60 hz systems, but not the other way around.

Page 1 of 3 123

Similar Threads

  1. Homemade die clicker with hydraulic press?
    By leathersmith in forum Diemaking / Diecutting
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-17-2014, 05:01 PM
  2. Citizen L20 tripping breaker
    By WillRitter in forum CNC Swiss Screw Machines
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-24-2013, 01:07 AM
  3. MAX200 tripping switchboard breaker
    By Welding Mike in forum Hypertherm Plasma
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-24-2013, 02:36 PM
  4. DM2800 5 amp breaker tripping
    By mp- in forum Dyna Mechtronics
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 02-12-2011, 06:36 PM
  5. Clicker versus roller press?
    By fredk in forum Diemaking / Diecutting
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-06-2010, 04:22 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •