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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?
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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    27

    tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    I got my self a haimer sensor. I have been trying to dial it in. Not a friendly task.

    I worked on it for some time before I started learning how to do it. I can dial it quite quickly now. I dial this thing in till my dial indicator doesnt move when I spin the haimer in the spindle, all is good. But to double check, I take it out of the spindle and put it back in and test again. And my dial test indicator moves as much as 3.5 thou when I turn the haimer in the spindle.

    After a while I decide to put my dial indicator as close to the center of the haimer tip as possible using my jog wheel in the z axis and x axis. I dial the indicator in again, and then remove the haimer from the spindle and then put it back in for another test. Its off again.

    I repeat this proccess again this time marking the tool holder and the spindle....same results. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a limitation of a tormach machine?

    Video of getting it dialed in perfect:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pk-G-SalSQ

    Video of taking the haimer out of the spindle and putting it back in for a double check:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PB0d6Jes54

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    121

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevbo22 View Post
    I got my self a haimer sensor. I have been trying to dial it in. Not a friendly task.

    I worked on it for some time before I started learning how to do it. I can dial it quite quickly now. I dial this thing in till my dial indicator doesnt move when I spin the haimer in the spindle, all is good. But to double check, I take it out of the spindle and put it back in and test again. And my dial test indicator moves as much as 3.5 thou when I turn the haimer in the spindle.

    After a while I decide to put my dial indicator as close to the center of the haimer tip as possible using my jog wheel in the z axis and x axis. I dial the indicator in again, and then remove the haimer from the spindle and then put it back in for another test. Its off again.

    I repeat this proccess again this time marking the tool holder and the spindle....same results. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a limitation of a tormach machine?

    Video of getting it dialed in perfect:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pk-G-SalSQ

    Video of taking the haimer out of the spindle and putting it back in for a double check:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PB0d6Jes54
    I’ve used them in full size vmc’s with cat 40 holders and have never had that issue. I’ve never touched a tormach though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Jul 2011
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    191

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Next time you zero out the run out of the Haimer do this. Before you remove the Haimer put a dot of paint on the spindle and one on the tool holder make sure they line up. Whenever you put the Haimer in the spindle make sure the dots line up. This will eliminate one possible source of error. Have a good look inside your spindle and see if there are any metal chips in there also.

  4. #4
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    Next time you zero out the run out of the Haimer do this. Before you remove the Haimer put a dot of paint on the spindle and one on the tool holder make sure they line up. Whenever you put the Haimer in the spindle make sure the dots line up. This will eliminate one possible source of error. Have a good look inside your spindle and see if there are any metal chips in there also.
    The second picture shows he tried that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    27
    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    Next time you zero out the run out of the Haimer do this. Before you remove the Haimer put a dot of paint on the spindle and one on the tool holder make sure they line up. Whenever you put the Haimer in the spindle make sure the dots line up. This will eliminate one possible source of error. Have a good look inside your spindle and see if there are any metal chips in there also.
    Ya i did do this. I attached a picture of that in my first post. Still didnt work however.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    29

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Do you put grease or anti-seize in your spindle where it contacts the R8 collet? If yes, how much anti-seize/grease do you apply there?

    Also, if you repeatedly take the Haimer out and put it back in, is the runout always the same? Also try and make sure you don't have any chips near the spindle nose, as that can throw things out quite a bit.

  7. #7
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Are you using a dedicated holder for the holder? I've found that you need to do this.
    Secondly.....make sure the tip of the Haimer is firmly screwed in. Mine was just a touch loose for a while, and I spent bloody hours chasing backlash and alignment on the Tormach before I realised......

  8. #8
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    Apr 2013
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    1455

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    It doesn't address your repeatability issue but I found that replacing the four small setscrews with socket head cap screws (SHCS) makes it significantly easier to adjust the Haimer for concentricity. Plus, it prevents the possibility of stripping the sockets of the small (4mm?) setscrews.

  9. #9
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    Oct 2008
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    1928

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    It doesn't address your repeatability issue but I found that replacing the four small setscrews with socket head cap screws (SHCS) makes it significantly easier to adjust the Haimer for concentricity. Plus, it prevents the possibility of stripping the sockets of the small (4mm?) setscrews.

    That's a great tip. Worthy of some reputation points.


    I've played with the idea of getting 3D taster, but I'm still using a tool height setter and an edge finder. For me its about price. I can get a tool height setter and an edge finder for all 5 mills for around the cost of a 3D taster. I really like the Fisher clicker edge finders. For most jobs they get me close enough to put a part back on the machine after I have taken it off. I keep one in a tool holder on the Tormach and on the Hurco.
    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com

  10. #10
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    Jun 2014
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    1477

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Is the tts collar a shrink fit or is it held tight with only a setscrew? This can cause errors in and of itself. Also it needs to be faced off after installation, if the top surface isnt absolutely flat that will be a problem as well.
    mike sr

  11. #11
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    Is the tts collar a shrink fit or is it held tight with only a setscrew? This can cause errors in and of itself. Also it needs to be faced off after installation, if the top surface isnt absolutely flat that will be a problem as well.
    Would it be better to put the taster in a collet chuck tool holder instead of a set screw tool holder?
    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    27

    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snecx View Post
    Do you put grease or anti-seize in your spindle where it contacts the R8 collet? If yes, how much anti-seize/grease do you apply there?

    Also, if you repeatedly take the Haimer out and put it back in, is the runout always the same? Also try and make sure you don't have any chips near the spindle nose, as that can throw things out quite a bit.
    No, I do not have any grease or anti seize in the spindle. I have also made sure that I have no left over chips in it. I can check to see if the runout is the same. I only have ever checked it the one time after and then get frustrated and start over. But I will check this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Neill
    Are you using a dedicated holder for the holder? I've found that you need to do this.
    Secondly.....make sure the tip of the Haimer is firmly screwed in. Mine was just a touch loose for a while, and I spent bloody hours chasing backlash and alignment on the Tormach before I realised......
    Yes using a dedicated holder. I have screwed in and double re-screwed in the haimer tip to see if this was the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes
    Is the tts collar a shrink fit or is it held tight with only a setscrew? This can cause errors in and of itself. Also it needs to be faced off after installation, if the top surface isnt absolutely flat that will be a problem as well.
    The TTS holder is just the standard haimer 10mm set screw holder that tormach sells with the unit. But yes it is a set screw holder. "needs to be faced off", really? You had to do this on yours? This is the holder I am using: https://www.tormach.com/store/index....18&portrelay=1

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