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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?
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  1. #25
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    It depends on your accuracy requirements. When I really care about an edge I use a Moore "chair style" edge locator. For holes and tooling balls I use a spindle mounted DTI. Both are a pain but provide reliable accuracy to tenths.

  2. #26
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    You know in my previous comments I forgot to mention two things that may or may not be relevant.

    My comments don't take into account any inaccuracy in the clockwork mechanism. I would assume its designed so that any backlash in the gears it taken up by using the tool and its designed that way.

    Even if your Haimer is slightly off center couldn't you improve your results with an inspection mirror? Zero the taster, zero the work offset, rotate the taster 180 degrees, using your inspection mirror zero it again, and finally divide the number on your DRO by two.
    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com

  3. #27
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    One option with electronic edge finders is to probe twice 180 degrees out, and then do the math. Even then unless you have a really really high end probe you could still be +/- a couple tenths. I've tested this by auto probing hole centers with am electronic probe. Cheap ones and mid range ones. Never had a high end one.

    I have a Renishaw here albeit a very old one with the manual interface board, I mainly only probe holes and use the automatic routine in Pathpilot. you still have the machine errors and if the hole is not perfect and clean there will be errors there as well. Hole probing cancels the errors associated with it, but it still shows a tenth or two off at times., more or less it depends on how many times you want to split a hair............it is plenty close enough for the work I do, and the tip position doesnt change.
    mike sr

  4. #28
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    If it's not too late send it back. I get repeatability under half a thou on my tormach with the Hallmark ITTP and markings on the spindle and tool to ensure the same rotation and low speed probing (essential). You can do more with it too.

  5. #29
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    OP- I would try a different collet first thing.

    If it's not too late send it back. I get repeatability under half a thou on my tormach with the Hallmark ITTP and markings on the spindle and tool to ensure the same rotation and low speed probing (essential). You can do more with it too.
    Except that the reason for the OP's problem has not been determined. If the problem lies in the collet or the the spindle (Ie: tapers not correct or not seating properly), then it won't matter what you put in it as they will all be off. A Haimer is a well respected tool and I doubt that the problem is inside the probe.

    I'm sure the ITTP is a fine tool. It looks to be a well thought out and well constructed piece of equipment, but "You can do more with it too" isn't true. You can maybe do things faster, or you can automate things, but you can't really do "more". As a matter of fact the Haimer can do something the ITTP cannot. It can be use like a dial indicator to tram in a vise by watching the needle movement, or for checking the flatness of stock by running on the top surface, something no on-off probe can do. That is not to say the ITTP is bad, but don't discount a tool just because it has a dial on the front.

  6. #30
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    OP- I would try a different collet first thing.



    Except that the reason for the OP's problem has not been determined. If the problem lies in the collet or the the spindle (Ie: tapers not correct or not seating properly), then it won't matter what you put in it as they will all be off. A Haimer is a well respected tool and I doubt that the problem is inside the probe.

    I'm sure the ITTP is a fine tool. It looks to be a well thought out and well constructed piece of equipment, but "You can do more with it too" isn't true. You can maybe do things faster, or you can automate things, but you can't really do "more". As a matter of fact the Haimer can do something the ITTP cannot. It can be use like a dial indicator to tram in a vise by watching the needle movement, or for checking the flatness of stock by running on the top surface, something no on-off probe can do. That is not to say the ITTP is bad, but don't discount a tool just because it has a dial on the front.
    You're right. The source of the problem is more important, and I won't be any help there.

    I digitize with my ITTP. Note, they say it's not yet rated for that, but it works for me. That might be technically possible with a Haimer, but I think you'd agree it's not feasible.
    Your point stands, though. Certainly faster to check for flatness with an analog indicator, and a Haimer is definitely well respected. For my money, some dial indicators + an ITTP serves me best. For others that may be different. Some of the best machinists don't have any on/off probes, I'm sure. Mine has been a godsend.

  7. #31

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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes
    Maybe the shock of the PDB closing/closing is affecting the accuracy?
    I would try a piece of ground stock in the spindle, indicate it and then remove and reinstall, and indicate it again, if there is no difference iwould be suspect of the haimer, as the shock of the PDB opening or closing may be affecting it possibly??
    Sounds like a couple of others are having similar problems.

    Very interested in what you find the problem to be.
    I do not have a power drawbar. I will however be getting one in a few months. I hope I figure out the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    OP- I would try a different collet first thing.
    I tried this with a new r8 collet today. I still am having the same issues. I will try different tool holders as well soon once I receive them. I might get another haimer tip and try it with another tip. Honestly I am starting to think I am the problem, this shouldnt be that hard. Now, im no pro machinist, but thousnads of people have done this without issue.

    I read on practical machinist that this should be done in a v block. Once the haimer is calibrated in a v block, it has concentricity and and problem after calibration in a v block would be coming from the r8 collet or spindle or both. I am just not quite sure yet about how this is done exactly. Has anyone ever heard/done it this way?

  8. #32
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?


  9. #33

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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    Excellent share! I will read the pdf later tonight, thank you

  10. #34
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    I would do the following:

    1. Remove the R8 collet and indicate the spindle taper to see how true this runs.
    2. Check that the R8 alignment pin inside the spindle is not sticking into the spindle too far. I had this once and it would impinge on the collet when tightened and cause runout.
    3. Insert the R8 collet and a 3/4" ground rod or a long 3/4 dowel rod. The rod/dowel must be straight. You want some stick out so you can check runout close to the collet face and also a bit away from the collet.

    As far a using a V block to indicate the probe tip in, that will get the probe tip concentric with the TTS shank, but if there is runout in the spindle taper or the R8 collet then the probe tip will not run true. The goal should be to get the tip to run true to the spindle bearings, so a V block isn't the correct choice in my opinion. I would do as you have been doing and make a clocking mark so that the probe can be inserted the same way each time.

  11. #35
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    I think those probe stylus' are ceramic to metal joints, maybe one is a bit loose, dont know if this has been mentioned.........
    mike sr

  12. #36
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    Re: tormach limitation, or am I doing something wrong?

    I've broken several... They appear to be a metal inner part consisting of the ball and a shank with ceramic molded around it and the screw part at the top. I suppose that the ceramic could be cracked without actually separating completely. I can post a photoe of the internals tomorrow if that would help.

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