584,858 active members*
4,491 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Milltronics > Rigid tapping toolholder
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 36
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Question Rigid tapping toolholder

    I ran a rigid tapping cycle on my "new" 2006 RH19 cent7 the other day. I used a Jacobs chuck to hold the tap. When I took the tap out of the chuck and screwed it into the hole it just tapped, it seemed kind of sloppy. Years ago, I worked in a shop running a Mazak VTC20B and tapped tons of holes using nothing but a Jacobs chuck to hold it. Tapping stainless, 6AL4v Titanium, 4140, 1018 and never remember having a sloppy hole. Sizes from 1/2-13 down to 6-32. They all came out perfect.

    Is my sloppy hole from the toolholder? should I be using a toolholder that has some tension and compression?

    What do you guys use?


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    I normally use an ER collet to hold taps for rigid tapping, both on the lathe and mill. But for maximum accuracy, I think a dedicated floating tap holder would be the best choice. The Jacobs chuck could have a bit of runout and if the tap is stiff enough it might be able to cut a bit off center and tap the hole oversize. A floating tap holder would cause the tap to follow the hole.

    Also, you might look at the fit class of the tap. And confirm that your hole is the proper size.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Do you use a tap collet? or just a standard collet?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by gunmaker View Post
    Do you use a tap collet? or just a standard collet?

    Just a standard collet.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    629

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Why would you use a tension compression tap holder on a machine that is capable of rigid tapping? That is sort of an oxymoron.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by gunmaker View Post
    Do you use a tap collet? or just a standard collet?
    You should use the tap collet then the tap is driven how it is meant to be, a ER collet can be used but only as a substitute if you don't have the correct collet I don't use drill chucks on CNC mills they are not rigid enough and hold very poorly they where only designed to hold drills not a Tap

    Do you need tension and compression, only if your machine can't do true Rigid Taping
    Mactec54

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1567

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    See something about G63 Tapping and G84.2 Front synchronous tapping cycle for Mazak's....maybe
    http://www2.i-logic.com/manuals/Maza...l%20Matrix.pdf

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
    Why would you use a tension compression tap holder on a machine that is capable of rigid tapping? That is sort of an oxymoron.
    I would use one to solve a problem that didn't otherwise have an easy solution.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    See something about G63 Tapping and G84.2 Front synchronous tapping cycle for Mazak's....maybe
    http://www2.i-logic.com/manuals/Maza...l%20Matrix.pdf
    He is not using a Mazak machine
    Mactec54

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    The last machine I rigid tapped on was the Mazak back in '98. My "new" Milltronics 2006 RH19 cent7 is what I'm asking about. Does the hard tap fudge factor have anything to do with the quality of the synchronous feed? My mill is a 220V/3ph machine running on 243V/3ph. Not sure if that would have any adverse affect.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5717

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by gunmaker View Post
    The last machine I rigid tapped on was the Mazak back in '98. My "new" Milltronics 2006 RH19 cent7 is what I'm asking about. Does the hard tap fudge factor have anything to do with the quality of the synchronous feed?
    The Z feed should be electronically geared to the spindle encoder at some ratio based on the thread lead. If the ''fudge factor'' adds a variable to the Z/spindle encoder ratio in the rigid tapping cycle, then yes, it would have an effect. Maybe the fudge factor is to compensate for some latency in the system? I don't know, never heard of this before in a system.

    My mill is a 220V/3ph machine running on 243V/3ph. Not sure if that would have any adverse affect.
    I would not expect the voltage to have any effect on the tapping cycle. Seems like the voltage is in the acceptable range.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by gunmaker View Post
    The last machine I rigid tapped on was the Mazak back in '98. My "new" Milltronics 2006 RH19 cent7 is what I'm asking about. Does the hard tap fudge factor have anything to do with the quality of the synchronous feed? My mill is a 220V/3ph machine running on 243V/3ph. Not sure if that would have any adverse affect.
    " Voltage problem " None what's so ever, you sure you have rigid taping as most machines that was an extra and if it does not have then that would explain why you are having a problem you would have to contact Miltonic's to see if it was active for your machine
    Mactec54

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    pretty sure it has rigid tap. looks like it came standard on the RH19
    MillT by JAMES ANDERSON, on Flickr

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by gunmaker View Post
    pretty sure it has rigid tap. looks like it came standard on the RH19
    It may have but above that list it says RH33 no reason for the RH19 not to have it, what was the code you used just past it here
    Mactec54

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1567

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Does this machine have High/Low range Spindle? Try using High Range with G88 Hard Tapping

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It may have but above that list it says RH33 no reason for the RH19
    The RH33 is the end of the sentence above about the box ways. The RH19 has dovetail for the X.

    I programmed it in conversational using the rigid tap toggle option.

    No high or low range.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1567

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    was the Z axis Backlash checked? I see some Parameters like P818, P843, P844..if you feel brave...and P1200-1299 but... maybe its worth having a Service Tech house call...to fine tune your machine correctly.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    I only have one poster saying what they use to hold a tap. Lots of posts here, but most don't want to share what they use.

    I did order a ER20 tap collet for a 1/4" tap and will repeat the test when it arrives.

    There are a lot of different tap holders out there. I'd still like to hear from those that have used some of them tell me why and what they like or not.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1567

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    Bilz #1 System...easy to change Taps or the Tap Collet's no tools needed. each size Tap Collet has a square drive...

    Price varies and available for Ridge or Tension/Comp type holder.
    https://www.bilzusa.com/tapping_chucks_qc.php
    or ebay shop around
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-Lyndex...frcectupt=true

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    178

    Re: Rigid tapping toolholder

    I don't get the fudge factor? If there's any fudging going on, you had better be using a tension / compression holder. I use those on my Haas VF4, even tho it does have rigid tapping. I feel they take up any small bit of slop or play in the electronic gearing. Plus they have quick change tap holders.

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-06-2014, 04:44 AM
  2. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-01-2014, 07:02 AM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-04-2009, 12:43 AM
  4. Tapping head or rigid tapping
    By Gregory_C in forum Syil Products
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 06:49 AM
  5. Rigid tapping or tapping head
    By kentavv in forum Charter Oak Automation Support Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-24-2006, 06:08 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •