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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    I’m making a simple dish shape sanding surface.
    For the first 1/5 of the rough cut, it runs great then suddenly drops in Z and everything gets off kilter.
    The PRZ is off.
    I’m not sure if it’s software or a hardware issue.
    I’m running a KL 1212, Mach 3 and in this case Vetric Aspire.

    Please help


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    621

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by robwiacek View Post
    I’m making a simple dish shape sanding surface.
    For the first 1/5 of the rough cut, it runs great then suddenly drops in Z and everything gets off kilter.
    The PRZ is off.
    I’m not sure if it’s software or a hardware issue.
    I’m running a KL 1212, Mach 3 and in this case Vetric Aspire.

    Please help


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You can check Vectric off the list of possibilities your cam file isn't going to cause a sudden drop unless you programed the part that way.

    As far as what the cause is it could be a lot of things you're just going to need to do some reading based on your components. I would suggest giving more information including pictures of your machine along with a video of the problem so you can get help. Otherwise your going to get a bunch of guesses and you will have a hard time getting good information.

    Dan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    I know that’s right.
    But I went and ran a program that is steady Eddie for me and NO problems occurred.
    I opened up the controller housing, blew out any dust.
    Tomorrow, I’ll check all mechanical connections.
    I even went and searched the Gcode but found nothing abnormal.
    I guess I’ll re-run the program and video it.



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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    621

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by robwiacek View Post
    I know that’s right.
    But I went and ran a program that is steady Eddie for me and NO problems occurred.
    I opened up the controller housing, blew out any dust.
    Tomorrow, I’ll check all mechanical connections.
    I even went and searched the Gcode but found nothing abnormal.
    I guess I’ll re-run the program and video it.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I hear you it's tough to troubleshoot when it's intermittent like what it sounds like you are dealing with. I've seen guys replace all their steppers and drives for AC servos and it turned out to be the Cncpc was causing the problems with 3d vectric files. I would assume that wouldn't be your problem since you're using a laser cutter correct? I don't know enough about laser cutters to know what would cause the head to nosedive into the material.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    No it’s not a laser. Just a simple cnc router with a 1/2” ball nose bit.
    Other programs run fine! Just this one.
    Maybe I’ll blow out the Pc maybe dust is a problem. Who knows?


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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    621

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by robwiacek View Post
    No it’s not a laser. Just a simple cnc router with a 1/2” ball nose bit.
    Other programs run fine! Just this one.
    Maybe I’ll blow out the Pc maybe dust is a problem. Who knows?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Oh I kinda thought it was a router but you posted in a laser engraving forum. Can you post screen shots of the Aspire file showing the tool path info along with the part rendering? Btw the feeds and speeds are in the tool setup in Aspire. You need to make sure you have the proper chip load for your tooling setup, the default settings more than likely won't be right. Is it a 3d machined part.? You might want to start a thread on vectrics forum if you are only having issues making parts with aspire. Have you machined similar parts with Mastercam with out issues?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    Oh I kinda thought it was a router but you posted in a laser engraving forum. Can you post screen shots of the Aspire file showing the tool path info along with the part rendering? Btw the feeds and speeds are in the tool setup in Aspire. You need to make sure you have the proper chip load for your tooling setup, the default settings more than likely won't be right. Is it a 3d machined part.? You might want to start a thread on vectrics forum if you are only having issues making parts with aspire. Have you machined similar parts with Mastercam with out issues?
    Ditto, we had over 20 pages posted on the Vectrics Forum a few weeks ago and it ended up being mostly user error. Just about exactly the same thing as here. User did not understand basic CNC flow pattern or G Code and we spent a lot of time on his issue.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    66

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Ditto, we had over 20 pages posted on the Vectrics Forum a few weeks ago and it ended up being mostly user error. Just about exactly the same thing as here. User did not understand basic CNC flow pattern or G Code and we spent a lot of time on his issue.
    When mine did it on one design and worked on all the other I searched for days and did air cuts and it still did it. after a week of searching I discovered that the Z axis had sawdust on the bottom of the rails and had packed in hard enough to stop the axis.and the z would position thinking it was higher than it really was when it retracted. oh yeah I made a few holes in the spoil board and projects. now I watch that area carefully.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4252

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Try running at half the feed rate. If that solves the problem, you know how to tackle it.

    Cheers
    Roger

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Try running at half the feed rate. If that solves the problem, you know how to tackle it.

    Cheers
    Roger
    That will be painfully slow, but it’s worth it.
    I never set the feed rate in Aspire. In Mastercam, I do all the time.
    Thanks for the tip.
    I’ll give it a try.


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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Don't reduce the feedrate.
    Reduce the maximum velocity and acceleration settings in the control.
    You're most likely losing position on Z rapid moves, and the feedrate won't affect rapid moves.


    If you never set a feedrate in Aspire, then you are using the default feedrates, which may be totally inappropriate for your machine. Either way too high, or, way too low.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Where are those located?
    It makes sense what your saying, but I’m not really sure where to find the settings to manipulate.
    Are they in Mach 3 or on the Aspire tool path section?


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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Mach3. Config > Motor Tuning.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Thanks man!
    I’ll give it a shot.



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  15. #15
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    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    I’m pretty versed in G code and cnc speak.
    Not sure why I posted it to the laser site.
    I’ve written and corrected codes before while working in Mastercam X5.
    But this is just odd.
    I went back and ran programs done in Mastercam and no problem.
    So this is just weird.
    It’s s 22” diameter dish in MDF.
    It’s only about .25” deep in the center, and as I said I’ll get 1/5 or do through it then it’ll drop the Z then everything is off.
    The PRZ is no where near it’s original position.
    With a .5” ball nose bit, it takes so long just getting to that point. I don’t really want to slow it down. But I might run it again and try to find the exact line of code it freaks out on.
    Thanks for commenting.


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  16. #16
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    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    I’m going to check the parameters in Vetric and see what it is.
    But do you thinkMDF has any real effect on the 1/2” ball nose?
    It basically pulverized the material.

    BTW I did look for those posts.
    I think I found them. But what I do look out was fine tuning the machine in Mach 3
    Calibrating the 3 Axis’s


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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    6254

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Hi Rob - Does Vectrix have a toolpath simulation? If you can simulate the toolpath and its not in there then its mechanical. Peter

  18. #18
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    Jul 2013
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    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Rob - Does Vectrix have a toolpath simulation? If you can simulate the toolpath and its not in there then its mechanical. Peter
    Yes it does, but not sure if you can view the G Code


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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    621

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by robwiacek View Post
    Yes it does, but not sure if you can view the G Code


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Just open the cnc file with notepad ++ or visual studio. Just curious you said you use master cam, how do you not know how to use aspire? Master Cam is thousands of dollars and I would assume that if you have a seat you would be a proficient designer and know how to create toolpaths, Aspire is very simple to use compared to master cam. Years ago I had a rep trying to sell us a seat and it was around 15k so we decided to just pay a design firm to do are design work and prototyping since the parts were being made overseas anyway. Can you post some pictures of the tool paths you are using for the design, is it a 3d tool path? Why don't you just use master cam to draw the part and see if you have the same issue? That way you can eliminate any possibility that it's the Gcode.

  20. #20
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    Jul 2013
    Posts
    230

    Re: Vetric Aspire nose dive on Z Axis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    Just open the cnc file with notepad ++ or visual studio. Just curious you said you use master cam, how do you not know how to use aspire? Master Cam is thousands of dollars and I would assume that if you have a seat you would be a proficient designer and know how to create toolpaths, Aspire is very simple to use compared to master cam. Years ago I had a rep trying to sell us a seat and it was around 15k so we decided to just pay a design firm to do are design work and prototyping since the parts were being made overseas anyway. Can you post some pictures of the tool paths you are using for the design, is it a 3d tool path? Why don't you just use master cam to draw the part and see if you have the same issue? That way you can eliminate any possibility that it's the Gcode.
    A few years ago I won a grant from the state to become a cnc programmer /. operator.
    7000 interviewed, 7 were selected.(Mastercam X5)

    It was a 2 year course set into 5 months.
    I’ve forgotten more than I can tell you.
    I can’t remember how to draw the bowl shape and tool path it, thus the Aspire is much easier to work with.
    I’ll post a picture later today
    Thanks for your reply


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