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  1. #37
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    957

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    @mactech54
    I will use the spindle in my router so there will be almost no load.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    ps. oh and did I forgot to add you need an oil coolant for that kind of speed. My bad, that's right... I have this ugly oil chiller sitting right next my machine just for that spindle. Can't get rid of it because I occasionally machine with 1mm end mills and that needs the whole 16k-18k in most cases. So... think about that too
    Is the oil coolant just for cooling down the housing or does it flow right trough the bearings so cooling and lubrication is achieved together? Sorry I'm lost at that point.

    oh, and yes, I don't have a dynamic balancing equipment. I wanted to build one but I never get into it.

  2. #38

    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    284

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    @mactech54
    Is the oil coolant just for cooling down the housing or does it flow right trough the bearings so cooling and lubrication is achieved together? Sorry I'm lost at that point.
    I'll be very honest with you, I have absolutely no idea. All I know is there are two tubes connecting to the main spindle assy; an intake at the front (circled in red) and outlet on the back.
    My assumption would be housing cooling as I just can't figure out how the oil would be delivered to and from the bearing themselves.
    Other pic is the oil chiller (white boxxy thing). Its big man... that 20k rpm spinner really gets hot passed 15k when machining with a 0.5kg BT30s holder/tool. More or less 20~30min in the operation and the chiller kicks in...
    Not at the shop currently, best pics I could quickly find on hdd to illustrate.

    Keep us updated, g'luck with the project

  3. #39

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    10342

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    @mactech54
    I will use the spindle in my router so there will be almost no load.



    Is the oil coolant just for cooling down the housing or does it flow right trough the bearings so cooling and lubrication is achieved together? Sorry I'm lost at that point.

    oh, and yes, I don't have a dynamic balancing equipment. I wanted to build one but I never get into it.
    All the Chinese Spindles are using Grease on there high speed spindles, and they last quite well

    The oil is for the Bearings lube, and is normally in a mist with air, which helps to clear dust etc. from out the front through the labyrinth seal but high quality grease can be used at those speeds, oil lube you can run at higher RPM and if your air is dry, the Bearing can last longer

    But without any balancing you won't be running at those speeds anyway 12,000 RPM will most likely where you will be at, any part that you machine that is concentric inside and out will be in balance any cutout screws nuts Etc. will throw it out of balance, so for a smooth running spindle balancing is a requirement, including tool holders, although ISO 20 tool holder can be machined machined as one piece, shrink fit to hold the cutter can eliminate any need for balancing of the tool holder
    Mactec54

  4. #40

    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    284

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    Those are the holders "type" I'm literally forced to use with for HSM with above 12k revs. Some ideas... in case you plan on making some for high speed rev...
    Apart from the facemill (i.e. 3000RPM max), all the rest are dyn balanced. Notice the no hex-nuts and concentric assy (SK collets)
    Any other types of holder and trust me it feels really weird around the machine at above +12k speed lol

    Fast is good man, bloody terrifying (andhot), but good
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Holders.jpg  

  5. #41
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    93

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    An oil chiller is not an absolute requirement for high speed spindles. Fanuc RoboDrills come with 24k spindles (ceramic, gease packed bearings) that are air cooled.

  6. #42
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3658

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    those 24k fanuc spindles spindles also have low preload and a relatively short service life.

    coolant around the spindle and bearings on a belt drive spindle is *mostly* about thermal stability. the fluid keeps the spindle within a few degrees, and you get more accurate parts. you also get less chance of the bearings binding up - which can happen if the nose gets very hot.

    I would say for your first spindle, disregard any cooling
    wotzBotz

  7. #43
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3658

    Re: Let's build some ISO20 spindles

    For the bearings, use grease. Oiler systems are out of the scope of what you need. These days the only machines using oil mists are large spindles running very fast (40krpm HSK50 for example). The bearings you buy will actually tell you what to use for a given preload and rpm. If you are using cheap bearings, none of this will even matter.

    I was at CMTS today and saw a number of rather nice spindles.

    you should look at:

    Meyrat
    NSK America
    Jianken
    Microlab
    Andersen
    HSD

    Those guys all make small spindles, some with motors, some belt, some direct, ranging from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars. Microlab basically makes exactly what you are trying to do, for about a grand. Study how they have laid them out, power, bearing size, rpm limits.
    wotzBotz

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