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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?
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  1. #13
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    Re: buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?

    So you have gone ahead? Well it is a good price. When you have it all going please post your thoughts here. Cliff

  2. #14
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    Re: buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    If you are very worried about anything measured in one-ten-thousandth of an inch (or 10 microns or less) then you will be disappointed by any mill under 100k. And even some mllls over 100k.
    At the point of measuring tenths, having heavy people walking by the mill on the floor at the wrong time may conceivably affect the cut. (If your floor is split slab, or too thin, at least.)
    Holding 3 thousandths of an inch on a Tormach is totally achievable and a decent result, though -- this is about 0.075 millimeters.
    I don't expect such great precision 10 micron, but 0.8 mm is not good. I would settle for 0.02 / 0.03mm like my now self-built CNC.
    (Anyway, one I know has a used Cortini m300a, accuracy: 0.01mm, you don't need to spend 100K to get a good machine) only you have to find the opportunity.
    He for example spent 12K, and now has a professional work center.

    I would suggest checking if it can be adjusted out mechanically first, but backlash can be compensated out in PathPilot/LinuxCNC by adding a line to the AXIS section of the INI file with BACKLASH = X.XXX.
    Yes, and it gives a bit that I have to do maintenance at my CNC and now I have set the Backlash on Mach3, but I try to use it to the minimum necessary.

    So you have gone ahead? Well it is a good price. When you have it all going please post your thoughts here.
    No, in the end, the machine, with all the accessories sold separately, I got to 4.5K (euro), honestly I was already striving to take it now because it's an opportunity, but I don't even have a lab ready, I had to do two I thought again of expensive transportation of the machinery and many other problems.
    I'm sorry, because it's really a nice machine.

    Moreover, while I was shooting like a desperate person on the internet, I found a Chinese manual machine with a spindle of 1.1Kw, a large work surface, just like I need it. 20.5 x 58 CM.
    So I opted to build it from 0, Hiwin precision screws, 34 Clearpath size servomotors, etc...

    It will be very fast on rapid movements and certainly very precise .. It does not have the same tonnage as the Tormach, but in any case I only work aluminum and plastic materials, in fact, I don't need a 530 Kg machine.

    Maybe I open a new Topic as soon as the machine arrives, so I show you step by step what I can do!

  3. #15
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    Re: buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?

    I don't expect such great precision 10 micron, but 0.8 mm is not good
    I think you missed a zero there :-)

    Note that "theoretical microstepper resolution times ballscrew pitch" is not what you'll actually get out of the machine.
    The machine has flex; the entire power train has backlash and flex, and especially microstepping is known for not having as much holding power "in between" full steps so high cutting forces will deflect the workpiece, even if you use fat carbide cutters. And then there's spindle and collet runout.

    I would be highly surprised if you actually get 1 thou (0.025 mm) actual delivered precision on arbitrary work cuts with something that costs $4.5k. (Unless it's for watchmaking or something, perhaps?) (Also note:typically, I'd count the "worst/typical result" not the "best possible result I've measured." because if you iterate enough, you can typically walk in a toolpath that gets spot on all your critical dimensions, taking your mill specifics into account...)

  4. #16
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    Re: buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?

    If were are able to buy a Tormach 1100 in good condition for $4500 euro you would be getting a smoking deal.... especially considering the cost to ship there. IMO, nothing you are going to build from a chinese manual mill would compare to the Tormach. You would be better of tweaking the 1100 to make it right.

  5. #17
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    Re: buying PCNC 1100, am I asking too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bord View Post
    If were are able to buy a Tormach 1100 in good condition for $4500 euro you would be getting a smoking deal.... especially considering the cost to ship there. IMO, nothing you are going to build from a chinese manual mill would compare to the Tormach. You would be better of tweaking the 1100 to make it right.
    +1
    Unless your day job is designing and building full dress machine tools. IMHO Retrofit tools just don't measure up to a full working system out of the box. These machines are complete and for the most part ready to go to work day in and day out for years. Replacement parts are easy to get for most part and keeping the machine in good working order is imho straight forward. Then when you consider accessories like electronic probes, tool setters, 4th axis, PP control, large user group...……….. the system starts to shine like a little diamond. Takes time, experience and planning to retrofit anything to make a full working system. I have seen it done around here from time to time. D. Cossitt is an older one that comes to mind.

  6. #18
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    not every machine gets inspected
    these Chinese certificates are worthless
    please stay away from Alibaba
    you find better products in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by rdsi View Post
    Besides the backlash on Z you also have table flatness. For a small area the flatness can be pretty good but overall my table varies across X about 0.003" & Y about 0.002". This is a little more that the G2 inspection report says it should be and a lot more than the QC department measured on my report.

    Since my manual mill" (10" X 50") is flatter than I can measured (less than 0.0002") I've been thinking about pulling my table off and fly-cutting it.

    Most of the time I can live with the Tormach slop, or account for it, but in the back of my mind I'm always wishing for tighter machine but then I have to remind myself about the price point.

    You can download the Certificate of Inspection from Tormach to get an idea of what to expect. I would look closely at the max allowed values because that's likely where most machine are - they don't tend to be better IMHO.

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