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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Dyna Mechtronics > Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements
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  1. #1
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    Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Hi,
    I appear to have secured a Dyna DM4400M. Yay...super happy! However, it is a bit of a funny thing. The machine isn't very convenient for me to measure to ascertain the dimensions. It presently has a full enclosure on it which I'm pretty sure I cannot fit (that is 74W x 72D plus about 24 for the pendant). That means I need to take the enclosure off. Ideally I'd find what I call the 'toolroom' version of enclosure which has a movable tray and then trip troughs underneath. But even if I can't, the machine is still better than my Hurco KMB1 that I'm retrofitting to LinuxCNC right now, which has no enclosure at all.

    So... I'm looking for the width and depth of the machine without any enclosure and/or the width/depth of the machine with the older toolroom type enclosure. I'd also love the minimum height of the machine. I need to move it through about a 6' 8" doorway (rough... don't recall the exact height). I can take off the light and easily removable things, but if I have to cut off 3" of the casting, well, that obviously isn't going to work!

    So, there you have it.... Do you have any of those dimensions or can you get them from your machine? I would *really* love to get the information!

    Regards,
    Alan

  2. #2
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Alan-

    I don't know how close the 4400 is to the 4400M, it was my understanding they were basically the same machine with a Mits controller and more cabinet. Anyway here's a photo of my 4400 just after I placed it in my garage:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Hnq41jmfdpsnN1a7

    This is just a standard 2 car tract home garage (don't tell my HOA) and it barely takes up one quarter of it, so it fits real easy. I can send you dimensions later on if it's what you're looking for.

    Dan

  3. #3
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Hi Dan,
    First and foremost, thank you for the response. I definitely appreciate it!

    Yeah, the 4400 and 4400M are basically the same footprint. The pendant size may be a little different but I have a very good idea on that so I'm not worried about dimensions there.... Actually, even the 4000 is essentially the same machine, I believe, except that it doesn't have the toolchanger. I'm ramping up on Dyna jargon and models pretty quickly, LOL..... I think the only measurement that may or may not be different on the 4000 to 40000M is the height. But I'm not positive about that.

    There are a few concerns I have. Although it isn't a big machine, I already have a boatload of stuff in my garage. So 1/4 is actually quite a bit. It is mainly the width and height that concern me. I can back the machine up against a door so access to the rear isn't as big a concern. Let's take these one by one.

    Height: I have an 79" tall garage door. I need to get the height of the machine to something (hopefully) less than that. I don't mind removing motors, sensors to accomplish this task, but I can't lop off the top of the machine, of course! I suppose I could probably remove the bed from the base, but that seems like a huge amount of work. Once inside, I can position the machine so that it is between rafters... within reason.... so height is less of a concern there.

    Width (and to a degree, depth): are my next problem. The machine in question has a full enclosure. That is awesome but it takes a lot of room and space is a premium. My old Hurco KMB1 (which needs to find a new home...sniff sniff) was tucked in such that I could move a table to one side when not in use. It was completely a non-OSHA approved fit! However, in a one man shop, it was OK. Like all home hobbies, the machine really isn't even used that often and being a piece of automated equipment, I just stay clear of all moving pieces whenever the machine has power to the servo amplifiers. The Dyna's full enclosure is going to be a problem though. I don't think I can keep that much "static" width devoted to the machine all the time though. So I will probably have to remove those. I like your setup better, although the drip trays look like they might be just as wide as my full enclosure.

    I guess the measurements I'm looking for all ignore the control pendant, but they would be:
    1. Full width (including your drip trays)
    2. Width of table enclosure (which moves with the table, I assume)
    3. Width of the table without the table enclosure (really skimping here...)
    4. Depth of the machine minus the control pendant
    5. Dimensions of the base and then:
    A. Move the table to the right stop, measure to the right edge of the table and enclosure (2 measurements). Ditto on the left
    B. Move the table to the left stop, measure to the left edge of the table and enclosure (2 measurements). Ditto on the right
    6. Distance from the back of the enclosure to the rear of the machine (it looks like you have a computer station back there, so I'm guessing there is more room than I would have though)
    7. Anything else...

    I know that is a lot, but what I'm really trying to do is to get a good idea of the size of the machine, primarily without an enclosure and/or with the style of setup that you have. I can't really ascertain how much larger the machine is than my Hurco KMB1 and that is important because I want to put it into the same spot, if possible.

    Now for the fun stuff.... Do you like your machine? I think they look like the cat's meow. The one I'm getting is a little different in that it has servos and the Mitsubishi control, but I'm guessing that most of the capabilities are the same.

    Thank you for any help you can provide!
    Alan

  4. #4
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Alan-

    I don't think you have anything to worry about concerning the height, as long as it's not any different re: motors. Even at full height (Z axis at the top), the spindle motor still clears the 8 foot ceiling by almost 12", and lowered down it clears the garage door easily. I can get you some dimensions later this afternoon. What do you plan on doing with the cabinet now? Do you plan to sell it? If so I'd like to have a look at it, I might be interested. Where are you located? I'm in Arizona.

    I love this little machine, it's a full on industrial level machine with a pretty impressive work envelope for its size, and sturdy as a brick outhouse as they say. I've done a lot of work retrofitting, in case you haven't seen my re-fit thread look here:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/dyna-...rum-posts.html

    Dan

  5. #5
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Alan-

    The height is exactly 79" to the top of the Z axis motor fan. That's with the head moved down and the spindle motor lower than that. I remember I had to disconnect my garage door from the opener and prop it up higher to get the clearance, but if that's not an option the motor/housing is not a big deal to remove/replace.

    Here's the dimensions from your numbered list:

    1. The full width of the custom enclosure (bare aluminum part) is 77". It's fixed and stationary so that's it. The width of the original backsplash guard is 53" (also fixed). All of that is pretty easy to remove.

    2. The width of the table enclosure is 51" and it does move with the table.

    3. Table is 29". However, the X axis motor and radial bearing for the screw stick out both ends and travel with the table, total 41", so even with just a bare table you have more to contend with.

    4. Total depth is 63". This includes the transformer at the back which sticks out a little more than the cabinet. I left a little room at the back so I could access the interior of the cabinet, which was necessary as I did a full electronics re-fit (and still doing some!). With the Mits control and servos I would assume that's not on your agenda, so the back door access is not as necessary for you.

    5. The bottom casting (they call it the plenum, collects and directs the coolant) without the guards is 38", that's the widest part of the machine. If that's not what you're after ask again. For the other measurements, it wasn't clear what you wanted but here's what I did: I moved the table all the way to the right then measured from the spindle C/L to the edge and doubled that number for max travel both ways. Total travel width is (with original moving enclosure) 65" and just to the table is 41" but that does not include the motor and bearing I mentioned in #3. So with the moving enclosure the machine center must be 65/2=32.5" from the wall.

    6. Do you mean from the back splash guard? It's 24" to the back of the cabinet, but as I said the transformer housing sticks out some, so total 31"

    They didn't do a great job with the original splash guards so I made a make shift curtain from pvc and a shower curtain from Wally World:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/pKHpXxTccEDWvYC37

    I only wish the machine looked nicer--it looks like at some point they gave some kid some 'make-work' and handed him a brush and a bucket of paint. Wow, what a mess! Maybe after I retire and still have it I'll do something about that.

    Anything else you want to know ask away, I got a lot of help from regulars Marty Escarcega and Jim Dawson so I'm happy to give back what I can.

    Dan

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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Awesome, Dan! I'm going to pick through your information more carefully, but I think you've pretty much nailed most of what I was looking for (one caveat which I'll get to in a bit). Thank you so very much!

    It is interesting because I got an email this morning in which the gentleman indicated that the height was 79" with the servo motor removed. I'm guessing he must have meant *not* removed (or I read it all incorrectly... need to check) because that would definitely conflict with your measurements. 79" would be a problem for me as my garage door has sagged in the middle to that height. I'd need to get creative in a hurry, and that isn't fun (in this case). Removing the motor isn't a concern though.... For the record, to move my Hurco in/out, I have to decapitate it; but that is easier than it sounds.

    Now for measurement #5.... If the table is symmetric then your measurement is fine. However, I (albeit cryptically) phrased what I did because I've dealt with machines (Hurco) that are not symmetric. Essentially you are on the right track though. From the Centerline of the spindle, I'm trying to find the distance to the rightmost and leftmost edge of the table when jogged to the respective limits. That, ultimately, will govern the minimum free width I need available and, therefore, the width envelope of the machine. You've given me enough other dimensional information that I can figure out the left edge when jogged fully right, etc (you hit the head of the nail on #3 when you gave me the 41" for the extra "stuff"... I just don't know how much "metal" is on the left and right of the milling (29") table CL. Does that make sense?

    You are correct that I don't think I want to retrofit right now. Although I have experience with LinuxCNC (Hurco), the Mits M3 is working fine on this machine. It already has rigid tapping, high speed, nicely tuned servos, so I'm kind of left wondering what I would really gain by retrofitting.... If you have thoughts there, though, I'm all ears.

    Pardon my expression but when I looked at your, umm, artful splash guard I thought, "Dude! That is ugly!!!" . But the reality is that it doesn't matter. I will likely have to do the same thing and that is fine. Kudos to you for that very, ahh, creative solution! The only thing i think I'd probably do differently is to use a true shower curtain as they are pretty see through. Other than that, looks good to me!

    I'll go through this more carefully later, but again.... thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate your willingness to help search out some measurements for me!
    Alan

    Others might find the following photos of a DM4400M with its clothes removed (not my machine, sent to me by another person)
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    It is interesting because I got an email this morning in which the gentleman indicated that the height was 79" with the servo motor removed. I'm guessing he must have meant *not* removed (or I read it all incorrectly... need to check) because that would definitely conflict with your measurements. 79" would be a problem for me as my garage door has sagged in the middle to that height. I'd need to get creative in a hurry, and that isn't fun (in this case). Removing the motor isn't a concern though.... For the record, to move my Hurco in/out, I have to decapitate it; but that is easier than it sounds.
    I don't know about the 4400M but both of my 4400's use a servo motor for the spindle. It's possible that's what he meant--if you remove the spindle (servo) motor then the highest point would be the Z axis motor as I mentioned before. But it still doesn't make sense because you would want the head down for moving anyway and that's all it takes to get the spindle motor out of the way, so I'm not sure either what he meant. Look at the first photo I sent you and you can see what I mean--the head is down and the spindle motor is below the Z axis motor.

    Edit: actually looking at the pictures you posted it looks like the Z axis servo is sticking up higher than on mine, so maybe that's it.

  8. #8
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    The gentleman who made the statement is well versed in servicing Dyna machines and I'm sure he would move the head all the way down. Therefore, I assume he was talking about the Z axis servo motor; it was how I interpreted his comment as I wasn't even thinking about the spindle being a servo (I think that is the same on the M version too). Removing the Z axis servo is a minor inconvenience but not terrible.

    The castings for the SKIP and M are probably the same or, at most, have superficial changes. As you are standing next to your machine and the other gentlemen was working from recollection, I'd defer to your measurements for what I can expect. I hope to visit a machine in person to confirm though. I did this once and if I can schedule it again, I'll take a tape measure and a level so that I can get an accurate measure on a real 'm' version just to be safe. It would not make for a good day to find out I can't get the machine into my garage without demating it from the plenum (thank you for the terminology)!

  9. #9
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    Re: Urgent: Dyna DM4400 / DM4000 measurements

    I looked at the machine in person over the weekend and grabbed the manuals. First, it is always hard to get a feel for the size of something when it is in a wide open space. However, next to 13,000 pound giants, the 4400 really does look pretty small. I took a ton of measurements, however, and have drawn these up in a dimensioned drawing. It isn't a pretty document, and the measurements are really kind of the +/- 1.000 or so, but it does wonders to try to get a better feeling on how stuff will fit into a much more compact environment. When I get a chance, I'll add that information to this page in the hope that some other wayward soul can benefit from it.

    One of the things I noticed in the manual is that when these machines were shipped originally, the counterweight was hung from a hanger and the head was resting on a wood cradle. I'm sure that hanger is long gone on the machine I am getting... But, I'm wondering how you guys moved yours. Did you prep it in any way for transit? Mine is only going about 20 miles, but I certainly don't want it to get damaged in that distance. So... what are your experiences and recommendations?

    Oh, and I like the full enclosure. I'm planning on keeping it for the time being, although I may have to put it into storage while I rearrange my garage. If I *do* decide I cannot keep it (probably not likely), I'll find a home for it unless nobody wants/needs it. Rest assured, however, I do believe it trying to help out other owners of the machine; I won't send it to the trash bin unless there are no takers.

    Alan

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