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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm
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  1. #25
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    So next, I would disconnect the Pokeys board 0-10V signal then while running the motor with local control through the potentiometer, measure the voltage and the resistance to ground of the VI terminal. The resistance value should change when you change the speed dial.

    It may be that the VFD, when put into remote mode, is not disconnecting the potentiometer from the VI input. This would have the effect of pulling the Pokeys output down to something less than 10V when it is connected. The only way to see if this is happening is to measure the resistance to ground of the VI input pin again when the VFD is put into remote speed control mode. If there is resistance then that is what is happening. (I think).

    You may also try connecting an external potentiometer instead of the Pokeys. Does the external potentiometer work properly, or does it produce the same results as the Pokeys?.

    I think maybe something is pulling the voltage of VI down when you have it set to remote mode. Or the VFD is just not working properly (may be bad).

  2. #26

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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by rosevelt155 View Post
    When I measured the 10v from the Pokeys board the spindle was not running. The GNDi is connected properly as well as the 0-10v. I double-checked its a 2 pole motor but what would I do to change it to 4 pole at 800Hz? I'm considering trying that because nothing else is working so far
    You already had it running at 24,000 from the KeyPad

    Your VFD would not support 800Hz

    And your spindle Motor is 2 Pole

    Having been able to run it from the keypad only points to your 0-10v output not being correct or a Parameter not set correct related to Terminal Control, if the out put is what you need to look at first to see if it is changing when you change the RPM like enter MDI M3 S12000 and you should have 5v output if it is working correct
    Mactec54

  3. #27

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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    So next, I would disconnect the Pokeys board 0-10V signal then while running the motor with local control through the potentiometer, measure the voltage and the resistance to ground of the VI terminal. The resistance value should change when you change the speed dial.

    It may be that the VFD, when put into remote mode, is not disconnecting the potentiometer from the VI input. This would have the effect of pulling the Pokeys output down to something less than 10V when it is connected. The only way to see if this is happening is to measure the resistance to ground of the VI input pin again when the VFD is put into remote speed control mode. If there is resistance then that is what is happening. (I think).

    You may also try connecting an external potentiometer instead of the Pokeys. Does the external potentiometer work properly, or does it produce the same results as the Pokeys?.

    I think maybe something is pulling the voltage of VI down when you have it set to remote mode. Or the VFD is just not working properly (may be bad).
    You should not put a meter anywhere near the VFD Drive Terminals, as there would not be any reading what's so ever at VI Terminal, it's an input and is easily damaged so why would you suggest something like this

    If you know anything about these VFD Drives you would know that if the Pot is active then there is no remote control available, you can't have both
    Mactec54

  4. #28
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    So next, I would disconnect the Pokeys board 0-10V signal then while running the motor with local control through the potentiometer, measure the voltage and the resistance to ground of the VI terminal. The resistance value should change when you change the speed dial.

    It may be that the VFD, when put into remote mode, is not disconnecting the potentiometer from the VI input. This would have the effect of pulling the Pokeys output down to something less than 10V when it is connected. The only way to see if this is happening is to measure the resistance to ground of the VI input pin again when the VFD is put into remote speed control mode. If there is resistance then that is what is happening. (I think).

    You may also try connecting an external potentiometer instead of the Pokeys. Does the external potentiometer work properly, or does it produce the same results as the Pokeys?.

    I think maybe something is pulling the voltage of VI down when you have it set to remote mode. Or the VFD is just not working properly (may be bad).
    Some drives present a lower (or higher) impedance to the signal voltage 0-10 vdc than others, thats why controller boards have some adjustment in that output signal range. Remember the mach 3 program was designed to use a straight parallel port and all they had was 0-5 vdc, as I recall the PWM signal was the one really used and they used frequency instead of voltage. I read input voltages all the time on my VFD, its electronics so you use a DVM such as a Fluke which I have way too many of!!
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  5. #29

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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Some drives present a lower (or higher) impedance to the signal voltage 0-10 vdc than others, thats why controller boards have some adjustment in that output signal range. Remember the mach 3 program was designed to use a straight parallel port and all they had was 0-5 vdc, as I recall the PWM signal was the one really used and they used frequency instead of voltage. I read input voltages all the time on my VFD, its electronics so you use a DVM such as a Fluke which I have way too many of!!
    You have that backwards, Frequency is rarely used, it does not matter if Mach3 only output was 5v, as most computers only output 3.5v to 5v, so it does not matter what the control software is being used, it's still going to be 5v max from the computer, it is what the Breakout Boards are power by that converts the 5v signal to a 0-10v for the VFD Drive Speed control

    I think you misunderstand what was posted you can not read VI on your VFD Drive with your DVM as it does not output anything " it is a input only "
    Mactec54

  6. #30
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You have that backwards, Frequency is rarely used, it does not matter if Mach3 only output was 5v, as most computers only output 3.5v to 5v, so it does not matter what the control software is being used, it's still going to be 5v max from the computer, it is what the Breakout Boards are power by that converts the 5v signal to a 0-10v for the VFD Drive Speed control

    I think you misunderstand what was posted you can not read VI on your VFD Drive with your DVM as it does not output anything " it is a input only "
    Mach3 outputs a PWM signal, its converted to 0-10 vdc by an add on board, usually. PWM is a frequency. The motor speed can also be controlled by Step and Direction signals.

    Control of spindle revolution speed using PWM or STEP/DIR signals - Audiohms

    For reference > https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/PWM

    I was referring to reading the 0-10 vdc signal input which can certainly be read with a DVM. I also have a digital scope I can and do use. The negative side of the 0-10 signal needs to be from the controller board of course.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  7. #31
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Measuring the voltage or resistance at the input terminal can't harm the input. The VI terminal is a high impedance input that normally accepts an input of 0-10 volts. Sure, connecting it to your AC mains would probably fry it, however if one uses a bit of common sense then they would not do this. Remember the VI input is intended to have a potentiometer connected to it and thus can accept a connection directly to 10 volts DC or to Ground and anywhere in between.

    A multi meter has zero possibility to damage the circuit. Unless you connect the meter while it is in current measure mode and the other end is connected to some voltage that is greater than 10 or less than 0 volts.

    As wmgeorge said, it may be that the VI input is something other than what it should be as a high impedance input. Since rosevelt155 has already stated that the Pokeys is outputting a 10 volt signal I surmise that the problem is at the input terminal of VI. For sure if you put a 10K potentiometer across the input as the VFD manufacturer recommends, and you don't get the desired results you can assume that the device is defective and send it back.

  8. #32
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Dittos, DVM meters can not damage anything unless you do not know what your doing.

    His drive works on the keypad as it drives it up to 400 Hz and the motor to 24,000 rpm. So the problem ls elsewhere. I am assuming mactec has given him the correct parameters he is pretty knowledgeable on that part.

    So perhaps contracting the controller board maker would help. I am assuming also the 0-10 vdc signal was with the drive connected and running, under load. I suggested small clips to go on the signal voltage input and negative terminal to read, actually I used short pieces of insulated hook up wire clip to my meter leads.

    I also have a 0-15 vdc power supply from a Heathkit that I used to verify operation of mine.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  9. #33

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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    Measuring the voltage or resistance at the input terminal can't harm the input. The VI terminal is a high impedance input that normally accepts an input of 0-10 volts. Sure, connecting it to your AC mains would probably fry it, however if one uses a bit of common sense then they would not do this. Remember the VI input is intended to have a potentiometer connected to it and thus can accept a connection directly to 10 volts DC or to Ground and anywhere in between.

    A multi meter has zero possibility to damage the circuit. Unless you connect the meter while it is in current measure mode and the other end is connected to some voltage that is greater than 10 or less than 0 volts.

    As wmgeorge said, it may be that the VI input is something other than what it should be as a high impedance input. Since rosevelt155 has already stated that the Pokeys is outputting a 10 volt signal I surmise that the problem is at the input terminal of VI. For sure if you put a 10K potentiometer across the input as the VFD manufacturer recommends, and you don't get the desired results you can assume that the device is defective and send it back.
    A high impedance if you say so, do you have any experience with these logic controls, the max input rating I have seen them is 10mA most of these circuits are at around 4mA and are very easy to damage especially on the Hitachi VFD drives like wmgeorge has, when you have 24v Dc on the same terminal strip there have been many of them fried with doing wrong connections and from testing

    Have you ever been in the VFD Drive repair business if you have then you would know some of the most common repairs are from incorrect wiring and fried logic boards

    The VFD Drive manufacture does not recommend to use a Pot on VI, to add a pot is an option that you can do to all VFD Drives and there are 3 connections required for the pot to work

    I can almost guarantee that the problem is with the Pokeys, and could be as simple as a Noise problem, it seems everyone that uses Pokeys have these same problems

    Pokeys Manual attached
    Mactec54

  10. #34
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    PS its not Logic but analog 0-10 vdc and its high impedance. Most of the big boy drives I have installed in the way past were either 0-10 vdc or 4-20 ma control signal. We installed Toshiba or A-B drives. Both made in either Japan or USA. Made in China drives were not an option on industrial equipment.

    So is that what you repair Mac, Chinese drives?

    Some pic's of my VFD WJ200 - 022SF wiring instructions to clarify.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_4347.JPG   IMG_4348.JPG   IMG_4347.JPG   IMG_4348.JPG  
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

  11. #35

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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    PS its not Logic but analog 0-10 vdc and its high impedance. Most of the big boy drives I have installed in the way past were either 0-10 vdc or 4-20 ma control signal. We installed Toshiba or A-B drives. Both made in either Japan or USA. Made in China drives were not an option on industrial equipment.

    So is that what you repair Mac, Chinese drives?
    You should stop pretending you know something about VFD Drives there are more logic input than anything else on a VFD Drives low voltage Terminals here is a snip of your Hitachi, this is why they are called logic Terminals

    As for repaired VFD Drives anything you can name I have repaired it at some time, or redesigned it
    Mactec54

  12. #36
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    Re: 2.2kw 24000rpm Huanyang Spindle won't exceed 12000rpm

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You should stop pretending you know something about VFD Drives there are more logic input than anything else on a VFD Drives low voltage Terminals here is a snip of your Hitachi, this is why they are called logic Terminals

    As for repaired VFD Drives anything you can name I have repaired it at some time, or redesigned it
    Ahh If you take a close look at my picture out of the official publication not a "snip" from who knows where, you will note the top row has Logic inputs and the bottom row has Analog inputs…. once again, your wrong and I will let the folks here read what I have published, and the real electricians are getting a kick out of watching you stumble :wave: around so there is no longer any need for me to post on this Thread. Good Bye.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router

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