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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4252

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Would an American sourced power supply generate the correct output given the difference in our electrical supplies?
    A better question is would the American supply survive the experience? Maybe, maybe not.

    Try RSComponents in the UK for the basic bits: transformer, bridge, caps, OR for a complete PS. They are not the cheapest, but they are good quality.

    Cheers
    Roger

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    6248

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Hi BFP - Look at stepperonline. They have european distribution for motors, drivers, PS and other CNC stuff. Peter

  3. #43
    I’m running ihsv57-30-18-36-01-BY from JMC and they have incredible amounts of torque and speed. Also ultra quiet and I found them on aliexpress for $100 each with integrated drivers. Seems fairly competitive to steppers after you buy drivers especially compared to closed loop steppers and these are actual AC servos driven by an internal vector drive. It’s a dc to AC servo.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigFellaPhil View Post
    I've not looked into Servo Motors purely due to reading that they are considerably more costly than standard motors and my budget is tight...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Uguessedit View Post
    I’m running ihsv57-30-18-36-01-BY from JMC and they have incredible amounts of torque and speed. Also ultra quiet and I found them on aliexpress for $100 each with integrated drivers. Seems fairly competitive to steppers after you buy drivers especially compared to closed loop steppers and these are actual AC servos driven by an internal vector drive. It’s a dc to AC servo.
    Here is a photo of my benchtop router. I designed it with the idea when I have the space I can move the z axis and all the electrical hardware to a bigger table some day. It can machine steel at slow ipm and aluminum without issue. Though it’s running I do plan to install Y axis hiwin rails (the weak point) and extend the length to 48 inches with a cast Alcoa plate. I can tell you in retrospect that slotted tables stink, mdf stinks, unless all you cut is wood. The t slots won’t ever be as flat as you want if you do any type of precision work. Considering router are not really that they can do very well setup good. My custom z axis and gantry are stout and using all my physical force cannot flex it where round rails will flex easily. I used cast Alcoa for all the parts I made. Cost was around $2/lb for drops at the local aluminum yard.. I bought most everything a year ahead and pre planned my build. The only thing I changed was rid the steppers for servos. The rest has been part of my design plan from the get go. If you can try and keep a machine usable and upgrade it along the way to minimize downtime and gain experience on it you will have more enjoyment versus it sitting there waiting for your ideal build to get finished.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    It depends upon the specs for the power supply. Switch mode supplies for example are often designed to work from 50HZ to 400 Hz with a similarly wide voltage input range. However not every supply can handle that. In the same way transformer based supplies can be multi voltage and even specced for 50 Hz operation. In a nut shell you need to read the documentation!

    As for europe I’m pretty sure everything that is needed for a CNC can be found there. It might not be cheap or easy to find but the industrial base in the area kinda says that the hardware must be available. If you want to DIY a power supply for your drivers things like capacitors and rectifiers have to be engineered (sized) for what you are building and they can be purchased anywhere. The real trick is getting quality components, especially caps. Sadly I can’t help beyond that as I only know USA suppliers and a few international sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by routalot View Post
    Would an American sourced power supply generate the correct output given the difference in our electrical supplies? Its a question worth asking as the UK has 230 volts at 50Hz and not all components intended for 60Hz will behave.In some instances we have posters on this forum who seem to believe the world begins and ends at the American borders.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    A thought just occurred! The power supply issue can be completely eliminated by buying stepper drives with built in supplies ready to be wired up to line voltages. These drives will cost a bit more but it does eliminate a whole bunch of design effort and can save panel space.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    A thought just occurred! The power supply issue can be completely eliminated by buying stepper drives with built in supplies ready to be wired up to line voltages. These drives will cost a bit more but it does eliminate a whole bunch of design effort and can save panel space.
    Isn’t it 50hz 380v in the UK? There should be plenty of psu’s that plug in over there to 48v DC or whatever you choose for under $100usd. Just a quick look at aliexpress there is this US $408.64 10? Off | 12V/24V/36V/48V/50V Switching Power Supply Input 110V 220V 380V AC to DC LED Smps 4000W Adjustable Power Supply
    https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/swzP0I4g. That’s $400 however I’m sure you can find them for less. eBay has a 380v AC to 24v dc for $20 so whatever is needed there should be something compatible so he can use what he needs.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    230

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    FWIW, Standard line voltage is supplied at 240v 50hz in the UK; with the official declared voltage specification being 230v (+10% to -6%) 50hz.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1206

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uguessedit View Post
    Isn’t it 50hz 380v in the UK? There should be plenty of psu’s that plug in over there to 48v DC or whatever you choose for under $100usd. Just a quick look at aliexpress there is this US $408.64 10? Off | 12V/24V/36V/48V/50V Switching Power Supply Input 110V 220V 380V AC to DC LED Smps 4000W Adjustable Power Supply
    https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/swzP0I4g. That’s $400 however I’m sure you can find them for less. eBay has a 380v AC to 24v dc for $20 so whatever is needed there should be something compatible so he can use what he needs.
    380 volt is for industrial 3 phase supply.Normal supply is 230 volt and has been or quite a while.It used to be 240 volt,but dropped back in the early eighties I believe.I suspect all the suitable power supplies for this proposed machine will have their origins on the Pacific rim,regardless of where the final vendor is located.

  10. #50

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Hello everyone, once again thank you for the input from everyone, the PS Ger posted was a Toroidal Transformer Power supply which has some benefits over the Switching Power Supply types, the main one being it it's less likely to put High Voltage back on the outputs. I had no idea about the Toroidal PS before Ger posted the link but after reading up and watching a few videos on how they work I definitely think this is the way to go for my set-up, the only issue was getting it over here to the UK, will cost £100. However, after searching to no avail for a similar Toroidal PS this side of the pond, I've decided to bite the bullet and I'm going to order it later on this week... No doubt I'll have loads more questions when I start putting all these parts together, so stay tuned... Please!

    Cheers,

    Phil

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    A lot of guys in the UK just build their own. You just need a transformer, bridge rectifier and capacitors. There's not a lot too it.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    1195

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    You can try this MA860HT 2-phase stepper driver Universal AC-DC https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1950...chweb201603_52 or equal Leadshine product at stepper online. I will use them because I have stepper motor with high inductance. If you have stepper motor with 22 mH, then you just need to wire mains 110 v to this stepper driver. The stepper driver has no polarity. I will use them with step down transformer 220 VAC to 60 VAC.

  13. #53

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Asuratman - thank you but I've already got my Stepper Drives...


    Ger (or anyone else) it sounds simple enough to build your own and it does look doable, also it would be a lot cheaper - but I don't have a clue where to start... I'm looking for 80v 1000uf Capacitors and some are saying 'Radial' others are stating 'Snap-in' termination style, does this matter which I choose?
    The Bridge Rectifiers are a bit confusing don't know what a lot of this means and what I would need... - Forward Current, Peak Reverse Voltage, Vf Forward Voltage, Max Surge Current and Mounting Style (Through Hole or SMD/SMT)??
    What size Toroidal Transformer would I need e.g Power Rating, Number of Outputs, Secondary Current, etc??

    Also, would I need a Heatsink and/or PCB Board to connect them all together??

    Any help would be hugely appreciated!


    Phil

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Not everything comes out of the Pacific Rim area! I’d be real surprised if there are no transformer / power supply builders in England or Europe.

    If not, it is very easy to get a Stepper drive suitable supply from Asia. The killer though is shipping costs which can be high if you go with a transformer based device.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #56

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    I've literally just watched this on Youtube, then I logged in here and you'd posted it, lol, yeah it's a good video and I've found a few more that explain the different ratings so I think i'll be ok. One thing I was wondering is, is it better to go for one big Capacitor or 4 smaller ones like in this video above?

    Cheers,


    Phil

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    It doesn't really matter.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  18. #58
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Capacitors don't matter as long as they are rated correctly for this type of application. Generally derating the voltage spec will lead to longer life at the expense of a bigger cap. 150 volt rated caps will likely be plenty as far as voltage rating goes. Caps with a low ESR spec/design also are of advantage. When wired in parallel the capacitance adds up so it is fairly easy to get the capacitance value you want.

    The bad side of capacitors is that there is a lot of junk capacitors being sold these days. In fact bad caps have managed their way into all sorts of devices leading to early failure. Sometimes the failures are spectacular. So when buying caps it is far better to pay a few extra bucks buying brand names from trusted sources. The internet is full of videos of guys fixing XYZ gizmo simply by replacing bad caps.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    230

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Generally derating the voltage spec will lead to longer life at the expense of a bigger cap.
    For clarity: that's a physically bigger package; not a capacitor with more micro-farads (uf).

    Caps with a low ESR spec/design also are of advantage. When wired in parallel the capacitance adds up so it is fairly easy to get the capacitance value you want.
    Also, the effect of the ESR gets spread out across multiple caps when wired parallel.

    The bad side of capacitors is that there is a lot of junk capacitors being sold these days.
    Not just today... old Rifa power line filter caps are notorious for exploding when power is applied - and they are sometimes found connected before the power switch; so they go poof as soon as the power cable is plugged in. Old electrolytic caps are also prone to leaking the electrolyte (which is often corrosive) - even the good brands; so re-caping is often needed just as a preservative measure; even if the device is just going to be in storage.


  20. #60
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    May 2005
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    3920

    Re: 1st Build, will this be a decent Design?

    Quote Originally Posted by __Britt View Post
    For clarity: that's a physically bigger package; not a capacitor with more micro-farads (uf).
    Thanks for that l, bigger is what I meant.

    Also, the effect of the ESR gets spread out across multiple caps when wired parallel.



    Not just today... old Rifa power line filter caps are notorious for exploding when power is applied - and they are sometimes found connected before the power switch; so they go poof as soon as the power cable is plugged in. Old electrolytic caps are also prone to leaking the electrolyte (which is often corrosive) - even the good brands; so re-caping is often needed just as a preservative measure; even if the device is just going to be in storage.

    I’m actually wondering if there was a time when we universally had good capacitors? As for the Rifa capacitors that is a bad situation but having a power cap explode on you can be “exciting” in all the bad ways. Which highlights an important consideration for this owner supply builders - make sure your polarities are right.

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