[mactec54]

? The drive faults without a load?

The Drive faults with a load Spindle attached, so if he removes the Spindle the drive will output when turned on and then can be measured at U V W

[justCNCit]

The drive doesn't fault without load, and the drive outputs on UVW without the motor 150 volts, on each pole to ground. According to my electrician cousin who did the reading the VFD needs to put out 220v otherwise too many amps will pass into the motor.

[nwrepair1]

My God Mactec54. Same pics, same wording ,same admonishment, same irritating crap every time. Why do you bother? It's getting old. I am also a retired industrial electrician and can attest that not all machines are EMI compliant. Example would be the ShopSaber SS 23 I bought new last year. No shielded wire except on limits and emergency stops. Control box not UL Listed or approved. Most cnc routers built in US in the 1990s didn't have shielded either. In fact most mfg resisted use of shielded until Europe made it mandatory. Get a life.

[mactec54]

The drive doesn't fault without load, and the drive outputs on UVW without the motor 150 volts, on each pole to ground. According to my electrician cousin who did the reading the VFD needs to put out 220v otherwise too many amps will pass into the motor.

Correct this is why I asked for you to check it

Ok that is a good start did he check the Dc bus voltage this is how to do it, open link this will help you under stand how to do it, if you have a low output which is to low at 150v it could be the input supply is not able to supply enough for the DC Bus Voltage to be correct

It should read 310v to 339v to be correct this is what affects the output voltage

Troubleshooting VFD Problems – How to Measure DC Bus Voltage and DC Ripple – Voltage Disturbance

[mactec54]

My God Mactec54. Same pics, same wording ,same admonishment, same irritating crap every time. Why do you bother? It's getting old. I am also a retired industrial electrician and can attest that not all machines are EMI compliant. Example would be the ShopSaber SS 23 I bought new last year. No shielded wire except on limits and emergency stops. Control box not UL Listed or approved. Most cnc routers built in US in the 1990s didn't have shielded either. In fact most mfg resisted use of shielded until Europe made it mandatory. Get a life.

The industry is a whole lot more torrent to EMI that a Home Hobby shop

You are obvious just another mouth piece with no substance, you need to add to what I post to help people who are struggling to do this if you can't add help to those that need it then don't criticize those that are helping

Nobody cares if you brought a machine that is not wired to electrical standards, that shows your poor judgment as an electrician

So if you think this wiring is Ok let us know

[justCNCit]

Wmgeorge suggested using a tester that can read up to 400 hz. The reader we used to measure the 150v didn’t have a frequency reading option. Does that invalidate the reading, or does that tell me that the VFD is compromised for sure?

[mactec54]

Wmgeorge suggested using a tester that can read up to 400 hz. The reader we used to measure the 150v didn’t have a frequency reading option. Does that invalidate the reading, or does that tell me that the VFD is compromised for sure?

You where only reading Voltage, but you must read from Phase to Phase not Phase to Ground, at the worst the meter will not read the correct reading, his meter only needs to have a low pass filter and he will be fine

If he has Dc voltage up to 400v then he can check the DC Bus Voltage which will give me a good idea of what is going on

[MaxTheDog]

Wmgeorge suggested using a tester that can read up to 400 hz. The reader we used to measure the 150v didn’t have a frequency reading option. Does that invalidate the reading, or does that tell me that the VFD is compromised for sure?

If the wire from the VFD to the motor is long, it can cause high voltage reflections in the VFD and motor. it can burn through the insulation of the motor and maybe burn out the VFD output devices. You can insert some reactors in between them to knock down some of the high voltage. VFD rated motors can handle higher voltages than single frequency motors. setting the chopping frequency too high will make the motor quieter but run hotter. I use the default chopping frequency, its noisy but cooler. Does your vacuum cause airflow problems for the motor cooling?

[Gerry_H]

You where only reading Voltage, but you must read from Phase to Phase not Phase to Ground, at the worst the meter will not read the correct reading, his meter only needs to have a low pass filter and he will be fine

If he has Dc voltage up to 400v then he can check the DC Bus Voltage which will give me a good idea of what is going on

When you measure the voltage, measure phase-to-phase (U to V, U to W, V to W), not phase to ground. Any voltmeter will do. For measuring the phase currents, the meter needs to be able to be able to handle the applicable frequency range (because the current pick-up is inductive).

[mactec54]

When you measure the voltage, measure phase-to-phase (U to V, U to W, V to W), not phase to ground. Any voltmeter will do. For measuring the phase currents, the meter needs to be able to be able to handle the applicable frequency range (because the current pick-up is inductive).

No not any meter, it will not measure with any accuracy the VFD Drive PWM output most of these VFD Drive installs, we are talking about are running at 400Hz to have full voltage not a regular 50Hz / 60hz so a regular 50Hz / 60Hz meter is not going to work with any accuracy, if work at all, that is why they make meters like Fluke that can measure a VFD Drive output, the meter needs to have a low pass filter to be able to read the VFD Drive output with any accuracy and normally if you are doing this on as a job, you want a good meter that can do the Dc Bus

[handlewanker]

My 2 pennoth worth if applicable...…….to test it, could you wire the apparent faulty VFD in question to a common 50/60 Hz 3 phase motor and see if it will run and speed up and down?…..just asking.

BTW.....Mac does have an enormous capacity of patience...…...I don't think many on here have be so helpful with VFD's like he has been.
Ian.

[mactec54]

My 2 pennoth worth if applicable...…….to test it, could you wire the apparent faulty VFD in question to a common 50/60 Hz 3 phase motor and see if it will run and speed up and down?…..just asking.

BTW.....Mac does have an enormous capacity of patience...…...I don't think many on here have be so helpful with VFD's like he has been.
Ian.

Here is a good explanation what is happening and why a regular meter has trouble reading the output, they are just not designed for these kind of measurements, meters that have a low pass filter can do quite a good job, there are some cheap Chinese meters that can do it all, so you don't have to have an expensive meter like a Fluke to do the job

VFD PWM Waveform

[handlewanker]

In that link it states that an analogue meter can read the VFD voltage because it doesn't move quick enough to dip when the voltage goes low during the ramp up to full voltage etc, so for the test all you need is to measure the voltage across 2 of the wires with an oldie needle type meter and you're good to go if you get a reading......as I see it.

Question 1..…...does this apply to all VFD's like the ones sold on EBAY, Bangood, Amazon etc.

Question 2…….is it OK to run a VFD straight out of the box with the settings they come with if you don't require any exotic settings for special purposes etc?
Ian.

[mactec54]

In that link it states that an analogue meter can read the VFD voltage because it doesn't move quick enough to dip when the voltage goes low during the ramp up to full voltage etc, so for the test all you need is to measure the voltage across 2 of the wires with an oldie needle type meter and you're good to go if you get a reading......as I see it.

Question 1..…...does this apply to all VFD's like the ones sold on EBAY, Bangood, Amazon etc.

Question 2…….is it OK to run a VFD straight out of the box with the settings they come with if you don't require any exotic settings for special purposes etc?
Ian.

I would not count on a analogue meter as it would not be an accurate reading either

Yes all VFD Drives, there are some that have a different number of output stages but you would not be buying any of those Drives because of cost

Yes you can run a VFD Drive straight out of the box with no motor wired to it most come configured for either 50Hz or 60Hz , also if you had a regular 3Ph 50Hz Ac motor of the right size you could wire it to the VFD's output U V W and Ground and run it also

I should of worded some of my posts better as to the use of a meter, the meter it's self will not damage the VFD Drive it is the user using the meter that can damage the IGBT's of these cheap VFD Drives

[handlewanker]

Tank you..…...just bought one of "those" drives to go with a Deckel D bit grinder that I sold on Gumtree to make it more saleable for running on single phase......2.2Kw 3Hp etc, A$80 on Amazon.

There's a brilliant video by Clough42 in 2 parts on UTUBE on wiring up and setting all the parameters, and why you would want to, for a Westinghouse VFD, but I suppose it applies to practically all FVD's.....really makes sense of the handbook after it's explained in infinite detail.

The ability to house the VFD in a separate enclosure and have the controls on the machine of choice is quite handy.

One thing he did show and that is how/where to wire in a separate computer fan for when the motor is running slow....there's so much concise information in that video, especially for someone like myself who wants to just use one without the huge read-up and finger crossing exercise before switch on.
Ian.

[mactec54]

Tank you..…...just bought one of "those" drives to go with a Deckel D bit grinder that I sold on Gumtree to make it more saleable for running on single phase......2.2Kw 3Hp etc, A$80 on Amazon.

There's a brilliant video by Clough42 in 2 parts on UTUBE on wiring up and setting all the parameters, and why you would want to, for a Westinghouse VFD, but I suppose it applies to practically all FVD's.....really makes sense of the handbook after it's explained in infinite detail.

The ability to house the VFD in a separate enclosure and have the controls on the machine of choice is quite handy.

One thing he did show and that is how/where to wire in a separate computer fan for when the motor is running slow....there's so much concise information in that video, especially for someone like myself who wants to just use one without the huge read-up and finger crossing exercise before switch on.
Ian.

Did the D bit Grinder have a 3 Ph motor on it, you can only use a VFD Drive with a 3Ph motor

No all VFD Drives are different to wire and Program the principle is the same

If you see something on YouTube you have to be careful as most of the posters are the same as you with no real experience in setting up a VFD Drive, so what you think is really good can be very wrong also

[handlewanker]

Yes, the Deckel had a 3/4 Hp 3 phase 3,000 rpm motor on it which makes it less saleable to the gen unwashed etc.

For another A$100 for the VFD it immediately put the Deckel into the must have basket of anyone who wants or thinks they can use it for tool grinding.....don't even think about grinding the helixes of an end mill, but for angles on tool bits and end faces of end mills it's tops......just not my need as I have a Cuttermaster for all my wants.

The main point about the UTUBE vid by Clough42 was that it enlightened yours truly, (more so than the paper expo sheet with the VFD), as to how and why the parameters can be changed to suit your needs.....it's extremely explicit.

The terminals on the VFD are clearly marked for wire up and as it runs straight out of the box.....joyous rapture all round.

It is possible that the dang thing might malfunction some time in the future but as they are so cheap...…..I'll just sell it on Gumtree for a few bucks or bung it and get another,no chance to fix it.

BTW, the words and music I watched on UTUBE are by a person who has distinct knowledge about what he's talking about not someone who just bought a cheap VFD and thought he'd make a name by posting some twaddle about how he ran one etc...…..I don't know him, but I do know of him from other reviews and comments.
Ian.

[mactec54]

Yes, the Deckel had a 3/4 Hp 3 phase 3,000 rpm motor on it which makes it less saleable to the gen unwashed etc.

For another A$100 for the VFD it immediately put the Deckel into the must have basket of anyone who wants or thinks they can use it for tool grinding.....don't even think about grinding the helixes of an end mill, but for angles on tool bits and end faces of end mills it's tops......just not my need as I have a Cuttermaster for all my wants.

The main point about the UTUBE vid by Clough42 was that it enlightened yours truly, (more so than the paper expo sheet with the VFD), as to how and why the parameters can be changed to suit your needs.....it's extremely explicit.

The terminals on the VFD are clearly marked for wire up and as it runs straight out of the box.....joyous rapture all round.

It is possible that the dang thing might malfunction some time in the future but as they are so cheap...…..I'll just sell it on Gumtree for a few bucks or bung it and get another,no chance to fix it.

BTW, the words and music I watched on UTUBE are by a person who has distinct knowledge about what he's talking about not someone who just bought a cheap VFD and thought he'd make a name by posting some twaddle about how he ran one etc...…..I don't know him, but I do know of him from other reviews and comments.
Ian.

As I said he is just a hobby guy making videos, there is some good information in there if another first time hobby guy needs this, but take it at face value, as there where some mistakes being made when he was doing the wiring

What was the brand name of the VFD Drive you brought

[ericks]

I would say the guy did reasonably okay, only problem is from what i saw he is like Mac said just a hobby guy working on mains equipment., then showing other hobby guys how to work on mains equipment. This can be very dangerous. That said i visited a mate who runs a kitchen cabinet factory, an Aussie qualified sparky wired a VFD inside a steel enclosure for his compressor, the guy did not bond the enclosure!!

Guess being qualified does not always mean they do the job safely/to standard.

[handlewanker]

As I said he is just a hobby guy making videos, there is some good information in there if another first time hobby guy needs this, but take it at face value, as there where some mistakes being made when he was doing the wiring

What was the brand name of the VFD Drive you brought

Not sure of the actual brand as it's Chinese origin....but the type AT1 was noted in the instruction manual for that model....it's 2.2Kw 3 HP etc. on Amazon.

The main thing about the post was it made the instruction manual more user frienfdly….to me anyway, once I re-browsed it and saw what it was about.

Previously I avoided the main parameter setting up due to ignorance of what it meant and what for etc.....I can relate more to a visual presentation like a duck to water.....it's a case of don't tell me, show me.

If I'm designing something it's gotta be on paper not verbal......I suppose I related to comics (with pictures) when I was a kid in place of hard back novels etc.
Ian.