[Dancy]

Over the years I have considered replacing the control system on one of my mills. It is a Hitachi Seiki VK45. The main reason is how hard it is to get good support for the software on this machine. I have spent a couple of hours reading information about Dynomotion's systems and have some questions unanswered so here goes.

I will start with my biggest concern. Windows does lots of things without asking. Stupid things that interrupt most any program you might try to run. Things like file indexing, antivirus searches and updates. Last thing I need on a machine that powerful is an interruption in the middle of a sensitive operation. How do you resolve this?

Keshka Kotera
Summerville, Oregon

[TomKerekes]

Hi Keshka,

I will start with my biggest concern. Windows does lots of things without asking. Stupid things that interrupt most any program you might try to run. Things like file indexing, antivirus searches and updates. Last thing I need on a machine that powerful is an interruption in the middle of a sensitive operation. How do you resolve this?

Real-time operations are handled by our KFLOP Controller so Windows doesn't need to be real-time responsive. I'm not aware of Windows background functions ever being an issue.

Regarding Windows Updates: There are a number of ways those can be handled in order to not interfere with a Job: Disabled, set active hours, pause until specified date, etc.

[Dancy]

Tom, sounds like a good solution that the Kflop is running the show and windows is simply and interface to monitor/modify its action.

My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity and have high quality glass greys encoders. The spindle drive is Fanuc. I have not studied the interface on it in detail but they are quite common so am assuming someone has been there done that. I also see that you can cascade Konnect enough times that it should cover my input/output needs.

Have you any examples of machine conversions of mill in this class? It's rated at 22KVA and 7.5kw spindle.

[Dancy]

found this one:
https://youtu.be/FUkNXMOp6Dk

[Dancy]

looks like I need to go study your software a bit (grin)

[TomKerekes]

Hi Dancy,

My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity

You might try this simple test. To have +/-10V Analog and differential encoder inputs you would add our Kanalog Option.

and have high quality glass greys encoders

I'm not sure what "glass greys encoders" are. Are they linear scales of rotary? Do they have differential outputs?

[TomKerekes]

btw that video lead me to this video where KMotionCNC is used to make a cool part on a different mill for their very cool "Joker" motorcycle. I wish I spoke Russian. Its at the 20min mark.


https://youtu.be/UqRAztSsKdw

[Dancy]

encoders use six signal lines Phase A, Phase B and one rotation to provide count and direction information. They are rotary and made by Sanyo Sumtak.

[mmurray70]

Tom, sounds like a good solution that the Kflop is running the show and windows is simply and interface to monitor/modify its action.

My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity and have high quality glass greys encoders. The spindle drive is Fanuc. I have not studied the interface on it in detail but they are quite common so am assuming someone has been there done that. I also see that you can cascade Konnect enough times that it should cover my input/output needs.

Have you any examples of machine conversions of mill in this class? It's rated at 22KVA and 7.5kw spindle.

Ive been using Kflop to control a similar sized machine for few years now. I use the machine nearly everyday and really like it. Kflop is still the best option for a machine like this IMO. You can depend on it to control your machine without any surprises. One Konnect board will probably be enough to control a typical VMC. Thats all I needed, but you always have the option to add more.

I wouldnt be too quick to assume anything with a fanuc spindle drive. I've heard Fanuc tends to stay away from industry standards, a lot of their stuff will only work with other fanuc stuff. Can be very difficult or impossible to control some of their drives. Worst case scenario you could probably buy a VFD for spindle. The spindle motor will probably work fine on another VFD. Any maybe you might get lucky and get it all to work, but just saying there could be a few headaches. At least your servos/drives are not fanuc, thats a bonus. good luck with it.

[Dancy]

Agree Murray;
I am not a fan of this VFD. Originally I was running my mill with a rotary phase converter and a three phase variac to balance the power. I know when that Fanuc tries hard moves it creates some nasty power spikes and twice those spikes have killed the drive to the tune of near $3000 in repairs. For something of the class it's supposed to be, I expect better protection and it not fry it's self. I now use a 30kw propane three phase onan generator set for this reason alone and as such my operating expenses have increased more than I would have liked.

Question for Tom;
some years back when I first looked into a control upgrade, a competitor utilised a device from Galil to manage much of the control. It's a DMC-4080. Have you ever interfaced the Kflop to something like this (I have one of the expensive little critters). Advantages/disadvantages?

Keshka

[Jim Dawson]

Agree Murray;
I am not a fan of this VFD. Originally I was running my mill with a rotary phase converter and a three phase variac to balance the power. I know when that Fanuc tries hard moves it creates some nasty power spikes and twice those spikes have killed the drive to the tune of near $3000 in repairs. For something of the class it's supposed to be, I expect better protection and it not fry it's self. I now use a 30kw propane three phase onan generator set for this reason alone and as such my operating expenses have increased more than I would have liked.

Question for Tom;
some years back when I first looked into a control upgrade, a competitor utilised a device from Galil to manage much of the control. It's a DMC-4080. Have you ever interfaced the Kflop to something like this (I have one of the expensive little critters). Advantages/disadvantages?

Keshka

Just to put things in perspective, I'm running my lathe (7.5 KW spindle) on a well balanced 15 HP rotary phase converter and have not had any problems, even when it was Fanuc powered. I'm still using the Fanuc spindle motor but am powering it with a GS3 VFD. I replaced everything else that said Fanuc on it, now using DMM 1.8KW servos for the axis drives.

There would be no reason to add a Galil DMC 4080 to a Dynomotion system. They both do the same job. It would be redundant. However the DMC-4080 is higher performance and has all of the Kflop/Kanalog features and accessories already built in out of the box. USB, serial, and ethernet interface, 8 axis, 60 I/O, dual encoder inputs on each axis, stepper, PWM, or analog command (selectable for each axis).

I have a DMC-4080 on one machine in my shop, and run two others on DMC-1846s

[Dancy]

......me thinks I need to send Tom some money for goodies

(grin)


really impressed with the support I see everywhere Tom

[Dancy]

Thank you Jim, was typing a PM to you and I come back and I see you found my thread.

[Dancy]

blank

[Jim Dawson]

Thank you Jim, was typing a PM to you and I come back and I see you found my thread.

My pleasure.

As long as the thread was about Dynomotion products, Tom is the one to answer any questions. I was just following along and learning. But when you asked about Galil, that is my universe so I could provide an intelligent answer.

[Dancy]

Tom;
Have you published and step by step guides describing installation and setup of a typical CNC application?

[TomKerekes]

There would be no reason to add a Galil DMC 4080 to a Dynomotion system. They both do the same job. It would be redundant. However the DMC-4080 is higher performance and has all of the Kflop/Kanalog features and accessories already built in out of the box. USB, serial, and ethernet interface, 8 axis, 60 I/O, dual encoder inputs on each axis, stepper, PWM, or analog command (selectable for each axis).

The Galil DMC-4080 is a great product similar to KFLOP with lots of built in IO, but I take exception to it being "higher performance" than KFLOP.

KFLOP's servo update rate is > 2X faster (90us vs 187us) while doing 64-bit floating point vs 32-bit integer math, with User Programs running orders of magnitudes faster, and @ ~1/10th the price

[Jim Dawson]

The Galil DMC-4080 is a great product similar to KFLOP with lots of built in IO, but I take exception to it being "higher performance" than KFLOP.

KFLOP's servo update rate is > 2X faster (90us vs 187us) while doing 64-bit floating point vs 32-bit integer math, with User Programs running orders of magnitudes faster, and @ ~1/10th the price

I stand corrected

[mmurray70]

Im also running a phase converter without any issues. I run a Fadal 4020 and Mazak QT10 off a 35hp converter. Slowing spindle acceleration will make a big difference, i dialed back acceleration on both machines a little. Very noticeable improvement on the lathe.

[TomKerekes]

Hi Dancy,

Tom;
Have you published and step by step guides describing installation and setup of a typical CNC application?

Step-by-step guides are difficult as each system is different. You are expected to understand the overall process: Interface to your hardware, configure the axes, tune your servos, create an Initialization program for your system, and finally configure KMotionCNC.

For a Kanalog system there are example wiring diagrams on the wiki, general servo tuning procedures, general Kanalog Info, and User build Threads like this.

And of course we are around to help