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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
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  1. #1
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    Jul 2019
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    20

    3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    I have a spindle that has been working until today. The spindle will start when I hit the spindle control in Mach3 and then (not immediately) shut down. I get an HoC code on the front of the VFD. I removed the wire connection to the top of the spindle and ran the spindle with Mach3 again. I can get it up to 400 and back down without any code. I assume this means that my spindle is bad but why would it startup in the first place.

    Can anyone tell me if the spindle is truly bad and if I need to replace or is it something else?

    I tried everything to post the video but I was unable. So here is a link to the video

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_V9...ew?usp=sharing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    1740

    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Find your manual and look up the code that is displayed. If you have to spin it to start you might have a missing phase connection either in the motor or drive wiring to the motor.

    https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/bl...vfd-to-a-motor

    https://www.motioncontroltips.com/tr...-power-checks/

    Never depend on checking from a VFD output to ground as it needs to be phase to phase check.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  3. #3
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    15362

    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    I have a spindle that has been working until today. The spindle will start when I hit the spindle control in Mach3 and then (not immediately) shut down. I get an HoC code on the front of the VFD. I removed the wire connection to the top of the spindle and ran the spindle with Mach3 again. I can get it up to 400 and back down without any code. I assume this means that my spindle is bad but why would it startup in the first place.

    Can anyone tell me if the spindle is truly bad and if I need to replace or is it something else?

    I tried everything to post the video but I was unable. So here is a link to the video

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_V9...ew?usp=sharing
    What VFD Drive do you have model number and brand name

    This can be many different problems as the spindle did not reach max speed, increase the ramp up to speed time Parameter
    Mactec54

  4. #4
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    Jul 2019
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    it is a "Best" VFD

  5. #5
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    No, I don't have to spin it to start, that was to just show it spins freely.

  6. #6
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    15362

    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    it is a "Best" VFD

    Ok check P038 and see what you have this may be set to low

    P038=

    Because you have been running for some time first check the spindle with a meter

    From the spindle plug

    Pin 1 to Pin 2=

    Pin 2 to Pin 3=

    Pin 3 to Pin 1=

    Pin 4 to spindle Body ( this is Ground )

    And all Pins to the Spindle Body

    Then check the Cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle, and inside the plug connections

    Why do you have to check this, this Fault indicates that there could be a short in your wiring or your Spindle
    Mactec54

  7. #7
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    1740

    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Who made up the cable from the VFD output to the spindle and plug? Very possible you have a loose or broken connection. Or the wires inside the cable end plug are shorted or open.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  8. #8
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    The company made the cable. I have asked the company for a manual and the parameters for the VFD but they have not responded. I'm not sure how to work the VFD but did put in P038 and pushed the button and it shows a 6.0. Would that be a correct number? I will check for a short between the wires today and post the results.
    Thanks for the help and direction

  9. #9
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    I just checked the wires on the spindle side and the plug side and there were no shorts. The ground pin was shorted to the case on the spindle side but that was it.

  10. #10
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    The company made the cable. I have asked the company for a manual and the parameters for the VFD but they have not responded. I'm not sure how to work the VFD but did put in P038 and pushed the button and it shows a 6.0. Would that be a correct number? I will check for a short between the wires today and post the results.
    Thanks for the help and direction
    Yes that number would be Ok
    Mactec54

  11. #11
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    I just checked the wires on the spindle side and the plug side and there were no shorts. The ground pin was shorted to the case on the spindle side but that was it.
    What where the continuity reading between the Pins as I posted at the Spindle only
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    between all of the pins read 0.8 ohms and nothing or open between the ground pin and others.

  13. #13
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    between all of the pins read 0.8 ohms and nothing or open between the ground pin and others.
    That is lower than normal, normal is 1.3 to 1.9, there have been some that low and the spindle did run ok

    Did they use a 4 wire shielded cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle
    Mactec54

  14. #14
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    They are only using the3 wires. However, I do believe it is a shielded casing but they are not utilizing it.

  15. #15
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    They are only using the3 wires. However, I do believe it is a shielded casing but they are not utilizing it.
    Do they have a Ground wire going to the VFD Drive with the input power, post some close up photos of how they have wired your machine

    So the Spindle had no correct Grounding which it has to have, I would say that the VFD is damaged, the spindle may have some problems as well, remove your spindle and take it to a motor repair shop and have them test the windings, they won't be able to run it unless they have a 400Hz VFD Drive and is set up to run your spindle at 400Hz
    Mactec54

  16. #16
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    I did purchase another spindle but want to make sure everything is OK before install.

    Here is a video of the VFD reacting to Mach3 controls. I am able to run it all the way up to 400Hz or 24000 rpm without the spindle attached.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zk...u7iQ3SN1VtIKha

    The pictures are also attached of the wiring. The wiring at the spindle is red, yellow, and blue but red, white and black at the VFD. I had to extend the wires so I soldered the red to red, white to white, and blue to black. I also shrink wrapped the wires individually and then taped the wires together.

  17. #17
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    I did purchase another spindle but want to make sure everything is OK before install.

    Here is a video of the VFD reacting to Mach3 controls. I am able to run it all the way up to 400Hz or 24000 rpm without the spindle attached.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zk...u7iQ3SN1VtIKha

    The pictures are also attached of the wiring. The wiring at the spindle is red, yellow, and blue but red, white and black at the VFD. I had to extend the wires so I soldered the red to red, white to white, and blue to black. I also shrink wrapped the wires individually and then taped the wires together.
    Check with your meter the Pin readings on your new spindle, to see how it compares to your old spindle, do not run the new spindle without the correct cable and Grounds installed

    So it does not appear to have a Ground on the VFD Drive as well, all of the wiring has to be checked for Ground wires, at the point of where the power enters the machine there will be a Ground connection from this point Ground wires need to be run to the VFD Drive and any thing else in cabinet that needs a Ground wire connected Items like drives, power supplies Etc

    Look for the sign for a Ground point or the letters ( PE )

    Then you need a new cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle which should be 4 wire shielded the shields terminated at both ends this is a cable that is Ideal for this install

    Check that the Spindle Pin 4 is Grounded in the Spindle with your meter, if not this has to be connected

    CF6-15-04 you can get this from IGUS

    Snip from your VFD manual

    Post more photos of the incoming Power and what else is in your cabinet
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VFD Grounding.PNG   Wiring VFD.PNG  
    Mactec54

  18. #18
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    I just got some time to take some pictures.
    There was not any type of grounding for the power so I placed the ground on the bottom left of the metal holding plate. See in the picture. But, It looks as if there is nothing grounded. I saw the PE in the VFD has nothing to it as well as the Mach3 controller's PE has nothing to it.

    Sorry when I posted the pictures they uploaded upside down and sideways.

  19. #19
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemBones View Post
    I just got some time to take some pictures.
    There was not any type of grounding for the power so I placed the ground on the bottom left of the metal holding plate. See in the picture. But, It looks as if there is nothing grounded. I saw the PE in the VFD has nothing to it as well as the Mach3 controller's PE has nothing to it.

    Sorry when I posted the pictures they uploaded upside down and sideways.
    Don't add a Ground to the Controller, unless you have all the spec's for it, and I can see if it is required

    So you added the that Ground wire ???

    Is that from the incoming Power supply Ground ???

    The Ground wire you added, looks a little on the light side, it needs to be the same or larger than the input Power supply wires which are most likely around 10 Gauge

    If you added this Ground, then you have setup a Star Point Ground , which is a start in the right direction, the drives and Power supplies all will have a PE Ground on them they all need a Ground wire to that same incoming Ground Point you made, you can mount a Bus on the plate and bring all your Grounds to that one point
    Mactec54

  20. #20
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    Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.

    Yes, I wired the unit and the ground wire is from the incoming house ground. It is 10 gauge to the unit but 12 gauge to the ground. I will change to 10 gauge. I don't see where the ground would go to on the drives. There is nothing noted on the cases. Does the ground of the spindle in the VFD and the ground to the case both go to the same PE terminal in the VFD? It looks like I can ground the transformer down on the corner. (see picture)

    As far as the spindle wire goes, what size wire should be used? On the website, even the 16 gauge states that it is good for 1000V.
    https://www.igus.com/product/1088

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