[dangerfox]

Hey guys and gals!

This is my very first post here, so forgive me if I miss something or get something wrong. -8.411 -8.5??

I am having an issue with my tool lengths changing in-between cut files on my Laguna Smart Shop 2. Ive been dealing with this for a while now and have done everything I can think of to correct it.

The latest process:

I changed over the spoil board yesterday before leaving to have it all ready for this morning. Booted up the SmartShop and proceeded to touch off all the tools and measure spoil board. My main profile tool #5 measured length is -8.411. When that was all done I exported a profile cut file (testcut.prg) to check the depth/tool length. This has been the issue for a while.

It ran perfect, cutting through the material and into the spoil board .01-.02 as I told it to do in VCarve.

I then exported the whole file tool changes and all. When it got the the 2nd to last tool path, which is an inside profile cut on the same file I used for the test cut in vcarve, it was cutting into the spoil board roughly .1"-.2". I turned to my Cnc screen and looked at the current tool length and it said -8.5??. I let it finish the last cut and stopped the machine and homed it. When I look at tool #5 again after the machine was stopped, tool #5 said length was -8.411.

So for some reason the machine is changing tool lengths in between files. What might be happening here? Is it the machine or is it the files coming from vcarve?

My opinion is that its the machine. The same thing happen 2 days ago with my Vbit length but I didn't catch the length numbers to compare. It started to cut into the material and I got worried it was going in to deep as it started to plunge. I stopped the machine quickly all to realize it was file. I homed the machine and started the exact same file, DID NOT re-export from VCarve, literally hit run on the same file. This time it didnt even cut into the material at all. It did the tool path hovering a hair over the material. Literally nothing changed with the file, but the tool length changed in the machine for some reason.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I currently have a support ticket open with Laguna, and waiting on a call back but needing to figure this out pretty quick-- as it is eating into production time with my business.

Thank you thank you thank you!

- Aaron

[ger21]

It's in your machine control, or how you are using it.
V Carve does not output tool lengths. It just tells the control how deep to cut.

[dangerfox]

Thank you Gerry for responding!!

Thats what I thought as well. Ive been running this machine for 2 years and deal with this problem all the time. I don't have a background in Cnc machines, self taught over the last 2 years.

How do you recommend going about correcting it?

[ger21]

I'd call Laguna.
I can't tell you, as I have no experience with that machine.

Does it have an ATC?

[dangerfox]

Yessir, it has an ATC.

[mactec54]

Thank you Gerry for responding!!

Thats what I thought as well. Ive been running this machine for 2 years and deal with this problem all the time. I don't have a background in Cnc machines, self taught over the last 2 years.

How do you recommend going about correcting it?

You should be setting your tools off the top of the work not off the top of the spoil board, this can give you problems if the control and cam software Vcarve in your case are not both doing the same thing

[dangerfox]

thank you mactec. I’ll definitely give that a whirl today! That is the only thing I haven’t changed. I the beginning of learning how to do this I’ve always done it the same way, on the top of the spoil.

I’ll let you know how it rolls. Thanks again!

[dangerfox]

You should be setting your tools off the top of the work not off the top of the spoil board, this can give you problems if the control and cam software Vcarve in your case are not both doing the same thing

So I did a test profile cut, changing it to the top of material actually made things worse. Its now cutting in to the top of the material. Nothing on the machine has changed since yesterday, literally the same sheet of wood is in the exact same place. I touched off the same tool #5 as yesterday and the length changed slightly from -8.411 to -8.414. Makes no sense!

I dont think its a program issue I think its a machine control issue. There is no reason for the tool length to change when all we did was power down the machine for the night. Same tool, same material, same everything and it changes.

Ive called Laguna twice today after putting in a ticket support request yesterday morning, still no call back. And they won't answer the phone! Its frustrating when your business runs off this machine and you can't get support for an machine issue.

[dangerfox]

Laguna finally called back. The tech said he thinks it the TTO unit, but mostly had no idea what was going on. I told him I stopped using the TTO and just manually touch off the tools and it was still way off and very spastic. He said he would have to consult a senior tech and get back to me.

[mactec54]

So I did a test profile cut, changing it to the top of material actually made things worse. Its now cutting in to the top of the material. Nothing on the machine has changed since yesterday, literally the same sheet of wood is in the exact same place. I touched off the same tool #5 as yesterday and the length changed slightly from -8.411 to -8.414. Makes no sense!

I dont think its a program issue I think its a machine control issue. There is no reason for the tool length to change when all we did was power down the machine for the night. Same tool, same material, same everything and it changes.

Ive called Laguna twice today after putting in a ticket support request yesterday morning, still no call back. And they won't answer the phone! Its frustrating when your business runs off this machine and you can't get support for an machine issue.

It could be your control that is messing up it should of changed by the thickness of the material, so are you homing the machine before you do these tool offsets, it can not be done unless you have homed the machine

Post some of the program that you are using as well this will tell us what if anything is wrong in the program

[dangerfox]

Yes, I am a cereal homer!! I home the machine after every touch off and file change. if I jog the gantry from home out of the way to place material, I will home it again after placement.

Ive attached the multi-tool change file I ran when the machine was changing tool lengths.

[mactec54]

Yes, I am a cereal homer!! I home the machine after every touch off and file change. if I jog the gantry from home out of the way to place material, I will home it again after placement.

Ive attached the multi-tool change file I ran when the machine was changing tool lengths.

You should only have to home your machine at startup this could be some of your problem, how you are doing your setups, machine homing does not change unless there has been an axes jam up or the motors are badly tuned

Can you just cut and paste part of it, or save it as a text file, like open it in MS word or notepad and save it as text file

[dangerfox]

Can you just cut and paste part of it, or save it as a text file, like open it in MS word or notepad and save it as text

Yes, let me get back to the shop where my computer is and I’ll send it right over.

[dangerfox]

You should only have to home your machine at startup this could be some of your problem, how you are doing your setups, machine homing does not change unless there has been an axes jam up or the motors are badly tuned

Can you just cut and paste part of it, or save it as a text file, like open it in MS word or notepad and save it as text file

Ive Attached the .txt file and a PDF.

[mactec54]

Ive Attached the .txt file and a PDF.

Ok how thick is the work piece you where cutting

[dangerfox]

Ok how thick is the work piece you where cutting

Baltic birch 0.732

[mactec54]

Baltic birch 0.732

So the way your program is it would go into the spoil board, first set a tool to the top of your work by hand manual and make sure that the number for that tool offset is correct

Then in Vcarve reprogram you part so your Z0 is the top of the part and then try that just a ( 1 ) tool test, you program should then have a G1 Z-.732F70 move if it does not then you have done it incorrect

Look in the Z axes Offset in your control this should be set to ( 0 ) I think this also may be where you have some numbers and they need to be Zeros when going from the Top of the part for machining

[mactec54]

Baltic birch 0.732

I hope what I posted did not confuse you too much, it would and should work when done like this, But your machine has been setup to work different, I have since looked more into your control, and you may have to stick to the way you have been doing it except things need to be checked and corrected

It seems there tool setter measurers from the frame of the machine ( which is very strange the way they have done this ) and you have to add what the thickness of your spoil board is into the control for this to work, then Z0 becomes the top of the Spoil Board, so if you have your Spoil Board setup in your control your Tool Setter should be working correct and it should set the tools to the top of the Spoil Board, if the number for the Spoil Board thickness is set incorrect then you will have problems with how deep the Tools cut

[dangerfox]

I hope what I posted did not confuse you too much, it would and should work when done like this, But your machine has been setup to work different, I have since looked more into your control, and you may have to stick to the way you have been doing it except things need to be checked and corrected

It seems there tool setter measurers from the frame of the machine ( which is very strange the way they have done this ) and you have to add what the thickness of your spoil board is into the control for this to work, then Z0 becomes the top of the Spoil Board, so if you have your Spoil Board setup in your control your Tool Setter should be working correct and it should set the tools to the top of the Spoil Board, if the number for the Spoil Board thickness is set incorrect then you will have problems with how deep the Tools cut

Sorry I was in meetings all day yesterday and wasn't able to get in the shop to try what you were saying. Its wasn't confusing, it made sense. Since this is my first cnc machine everything I've learned has been with the Laguna process. So what is normal to every other machine and normal to the Cnc industry I may not know about. Like you said, z0 being the phenolic table top, then it calculates the spoil board and then sets z0 there. Thats the only process ive ever done, so that's what I think is normal. Which you're saying it not normal.

What I keep going back to in this whole issue is this. I did 2 test profile cuts to check depth and got it exactly where it needed to be. When I did the full file with all of the tool paths was when the problem started. I saw the tool length change from the tool length I recorded before hand. Then when I stop the machine it went back to what I recorded as the correct tool length. Then the next day I touched off the tools again and they changed a touch more. Which shouldn't happen! This is the part that doesn't make sense and makes me think its the machine control causing the issue.

[dangerfox]

How I set the spoil board thickness.

1. plain spoil board on both sides.
2. I load my compression bit in the spindle
3. Zero out the spoil board thickness number in the machine control.
4. I touch off the compression bit.
5. Then manually touch the compression bit to the top of the spoil board.
6. I go to the machine coordinates and the z access number on the "zero point access" page gives me my spoil board thickness.
7. I enter that number into the zspoil box in settings and home the machine.
8. I touch off every tool 2 times each and log all lengths in our machine note book.
9. Start test cuts to make sure there are no issues. ( This part #9 has NEVER gone to plan with cut depths. )


Thank you for all of your help!! It really means a lot to me!