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  1. #1
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    30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
    Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
    One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
    3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
    aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
    and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
    They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
    everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.

    I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?

  2. #2
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    That machine looks like it has serious flex issues. Especially on the X-axis beam. If you want to get into CNC cheap, look at the CBeam machines like the workbee. Still has some flex but more substantial looking than the Scienci frame.

  3. #3
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
    Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
    One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
    3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
    aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
    and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
    They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
    everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.

    I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?
    No not a good starter project

    These machines are worse than buying a Chinese machine V-roller slides for machines like this are history
    Mactec54

  4. #4
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Why... ???

    T-slot aluminum (2020, 3030, etc) and associated hardware (connectors, etc) is readily available, and not very expensive, and a lot stiffer?

  5. #5
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27nUN1ejIQ
    machine does not have much flex at all. Its' not even been delivered yet so bit premature to judge how good it is?

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Because even when you buy direct from China a complete machine is $1200 usd shipped. That $1200 price includes a $363 air cooled spindle though so more like $937 usd total without spindle. I can make this for about $600 so saving a few hundred . https://bulkman3d.com/product/wbf/

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.

    I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.

  8. #8
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.

    I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.
    You obvious did not know what you are looking at the deflection is a massive amount for that small force 0.010" @ 3Kg, the max it should be is .0005" which would be 1/2 of one of those divisions on the dial which would be .0005" above this number and you are wasting your time

    There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact, the deflection you are seeing in this video is not the aluminum extrusion that is flexing it is the Z axes V-Bearing slide the aluminum extrusion flex is going to happen when you start cutting which will add to this flexing of each axes, even if you are just cutting wood you will see this in the cut
    Mactec54

  9. #9
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    "There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact" and everone I have seen is a slow painful process. the aluminum extrusions should be made to easily epoxy a standard steel extrusion into it taking about 30 to 60 seconds to do.

  11. #11
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    It sounds like you are already sold on the design. You should go for it instead of arguing the points. Then report back what you learned.

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    sorry did not mean to sound defensive. Still trying to figgure out how good these V wheels are and if adding 8 per rail would help vs the only 4 per rail they have now?
    Also would ball screws be a significant upgrade?

    This will be a hobby machine, cutting mostly softwoods and some hard ones.

  13. #13
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.
    The Z axes in the Video is using V-Bearings 4 of them for the Z axes he states this in the video, the whole machine is using V-Bearings, I will tell you again you are wasting your time with this design, even with 1Kg this design is a fail

    If you want to build junk then go ahead, there is a new one that pops up everyday but most don't stay very long in the market place

    I'm sure you can find an extrusion that you could epoxy some steel tube into, you have to do your own home work for that, most aluminum extrusion manufacturer's give all the profile dimensions how hard could it be to size some steel tube for what the profile is

    Aluminum Extrusion can be manufactured to any spec's you want if you want to buy 5ton for your first order, which some machine builder do have there own Extrusion Profile
    Mactec54

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    THE X & Y USE V WHEEL BEARINGS, THE Z AXIS USING LINEAR RAILS. THE V SLOT ALUMINUM ON THE Z AXIS IS FOR ADJUSTING THE DUST SHOE UP AND DOwn. i see a ton of nice hobby stuff made on youtube using v wheel cnc based machines. 1/2 a thou for hobby work is necessary. LOL, you think i am making swiss watches as a hobby. lol.

    most aluminum extruders require about $1500 to $2000 die fee and only a 1.5 ton minimum order, kind of silly suggestion for someone just looking to make a hobby cnc.

    if it's so easy to find a cnc appropriate extrusion to put a steel tube in then google it and show me.

    sorry your replies are just flippant.

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    [U] most don't stay very long in the market place
    shapeoko and x carve have been around for years.

  16. #16
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    THE X & Y USE V WHEEL BEARINGS, THE Z AXIS USING LINEAR RAILS. THE V SLOT ALUMINUM ON THE Z AXIS IS FOR ADJUSTING THE DUST SHOE UP AND DOwn. i see a ton of nice hobby stuff made on youtube using v wheel cnc based machines. 1/2 a thou for hobby work is necessary. LOL, you think i am making swiss watches as a hobby. lol.

    most aluminum extruders require about $1500 to $2000 die fee and only a 1.5 ton minimum order, kind of silly suggestion for someone just looking to make a hobby cnc.

    if it's so easy to find a cnc appropriate extrusion to put a steel tube in then google it and show me.

    sorry your replies are just flippant.
    Yes your are correct, in the Video though at 2.32 he is calling the Linear Bearings (A 4 Wheel configuration ) someone that builds a machine like this and does not know the correct names of the part he is using is not someone you want to be buy a machine from, they also must be very poor quality Linear Bearings to have that much slop in them

    The normal Z axes build with Linear Bearings will have no more than .0005" to .001" of movement depending on the grade of bearing being used, so he has a big problem with his Z axes

    At that point of a Z axes you want it to be as rigid as possible and .0005" is quite normal for any of these machine, this has nothing to do with machine accuracy, it is a rigidity requirement

    If your cutter can move around +/- .010 you are going to be breaking cutters, that is why the Z axes has to be rigid

    There is no die fee if you do a 5 Ton deal, I have done it this way, and it works out better, ( have you )

    Do your own home work Google the aluminum extrusion manufacturer's yourself I have no need to use extrusion to build a machine which I would not use for a machine like this unless it was just a 3D printer or laser
    Mactec54

  17. #17
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    shapeoko and x carve have been around for years.
    Yes there is a market for suckers and those that don't know any better
    Mactec54

  18. #18
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    LOL, there is no die fee, or maybe the economies of scale make it cheaper so instead of just reducing the price they keep the price the same and tell you its' free, when one spends $25,000 or more it is easy to throw in "free stuff"

    anyways I can tell you are a perfectionist with no real solutions for a lame hobby person like me, so you make your swiss watches, and I'll make my birdhouses OK?

  19. #19
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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    Quote Originally Posted by aluminumwelder View Post
    LOL, there is no die fee, or maybe the economies of scale make it cheaper so instead of just reducing the price they keep the price the same and tell you its' free, when one spends $25,000 or more it is easy to throw in "free stuff"

    anyways I can tell you are a perfectionist with no real solutions for a lame hobby person like me, so you make your swiss watches, and I'll make my birdhouses OK?
    The are hundreds of hobby guys that have built simple machines to start with and then built better machines once that see the short comings of the first build, just trying to move you past the first stage so you don't have to do it all over again

    If you did spend $25,000 and made $60,000 from that $25,000 investment I think that would be a successful outcome, If a design requires you to do this then some of us do this to move forward, there is a Zone members that did do there own Extrusions for there CNC Router machine builds
    Mactec54

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    Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design

    so I want to buy a hobby machine and you are telling me I could get my own custom extrustions made if I only spent $25,000? LOL talk about not understanding my needs. Some people just go way overboard. The only people that are going to pay to get custom dies made and stock pile 5 tons of aluminum are cnc manufacturer's not hobbiests, I thought that would be obvious !

    only machine I could find that uses rack and pinion and is under $2000
    https://millrightcnc.com/product/mil...router-bundle/

    not being sold till spring of 2020 anything that is currently available less then $2000 and around 24x24" at least , 30x30" would be better?

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