[aluminumwelder]

Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.

I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?

[philba]

That machine looks like it has serious flex issues. Especially on the X-axis beam. If you want to get into CNC cheap, look at the CBeam machines like the workbee. Still has some flex but more substantial looking than the Scienci frame.

[aluminumwelder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27nUN1ejIQ
machine does not have much flex at all. Its' not even been delivered yet so bit premature to judge how good it is?

[aluminumwelder]

the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.

I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.

[mactec54]

the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.

I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.

You obvious did not know what you are looking at the deflection is a massive amount for that small force 0.010" @ 3Kg, the max it should be is .0005" which would be 1/2 of one of those divisions on the dial which would be .0005" above this number and you are wasting your time

There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact, the deflection you are seeing in this video is not the aluminum extrusion that is flexing it is the Z axes V-Bearing slide the aluminum extrusion flex is going to happen when you start cutting which will add to this flexing of each axes, even if you are just cutting wood you will see this in the cut

[aluminumwelder]

sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.

[mactec54]

sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.

The Z axes in the Video is using V-Bearings 4 of them for the Z axes he states this in the video, the whole machine is using V-Bearings, I will tell you again you are wasting your time with this design, even with 1Kg this design is a fail

If you want to build junk then go ahead, there is a new one that pops up everyday but most don't stay very long in the market place

I'm sure you can find an extrusion that you could epoxy some steel tube into, you have to do your own home work for that, most aluminum extrusion manufacturer's give all the profile dimensions how hard could it be to size some steel tube for what the profile is

Aluminum Extrusion can be manufactured to any spec's you want if you want to buy 5ton for your first order, which some machine builder do have there own Extrusion Profile

[aluminumwelder]

"There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact" and everone I have seen is a slow painful process. the aluminum extrusions should be made to easily epoxy a standard steel extrusion into it taking about 30 to 60 seconds to do.

[mactec54]

Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.

I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?

No not a good starter project

These machines are worse than buying a Chinese machine V-roller slides for machines like this are history

[__Britt]

Why... ???

T-slot aluminum (2020, 3030, etc) and associated hardware (connectors, etc) is readily available, and not very expensive, and a lot stiffer?

[aluminumwelder]

Because even when you buy direct from China a complete machine is $1200 usd shipped. That $1200 price includes a $363 air cooled spindle though so more like $937 usd total without spindle. I can make this for about $600 so saving a few hundred . https://bulkman3d.com/product/wbf/

[philba]

It sounds like you are already sold on the design. You should go for it instead of arguing the points. Then report back what you learned.

[aluminumwelder]

sorry did not mean to sound defensive. Still trying to figgure out how good these V wheels are and if adding 8 per rail would help vs the only 4 per rail they have now?
Also would ball screws be a significant upgrade?

This will be a hobby machine, cutting mostly softwoods and some hard ones.

[ger21]

Anything under $5K-$7K is a tradeoff, price vs performance.
The only thing that matter is if it meets YOUR expectations. For most of the members here, those cheap machines are just not good enough. Some people take their hobbies more seriously than others.

[peteeng]

Hi Alumweld - You need to think about what you want to do. You need to have a specification for what you want to do then the decision is made.The machine will do it or not. To answer your questions. 1) Yes its an excellent starter machine you will learn alot and it may or may not do what you want 2) adding more wheels does not improve the performance of the device. I've looked at many of these things and generally the ones with more then 3 or 4 wheels have wheels that are not working. At this quality level the extrusions, the eccentrics, the wheels etc its not possible to adjust everything so all wheels contact. Even if they did the middle ones would not be doing anything. Why do motor cars only have 4 wheels? same question and answer. My suggestion is that you will build a far better machine in plywood then the ones discussed and it will be cheaper.... if you want to understand the issues in designing a machine and what it has to do read the Maximus thread. It starts from scratch and works through most design issues. Cheers Peter

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/austr...76822-cad.html

[__Britt]

I will mention this again: T-slot extrusions are stiff, cheap, and readily available. There is a whole ecosystem of connectors and parts that fit them. They can be cut with a regular miter saw, or even a hand saw if you are looking for a workout.

There are many machines built from them; and there's even a whole sub-forum here for the subject: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/t-slot-cnc-building/

Linear rails - both the round and the rectangular variety - are also available for not much money, from the same general sources as the T-slot extrusions. They just bolt on to the extrusions.

Anybody with some basic skills, a bit of persistence, and willingness to read and learn from the resources freely available online, can make their own hobby-grade machine, and bring it in at a hobby budget. It's almost like playing with Lego, except you have to clean up the chips afterwords.




P.s. - edited to add: if you get the round linear rails, be sure to get the fully supported version! It makes it much stiffer.