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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > Commercial CNC Wood Routers > Omni CNC > I would not buy a wheel barrow from Omni - 6 months late, lies & a crap machine
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  1. #1
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    Smile I would not buy a wheel barrow from Omni - 6 months late, lies & a crap machine

    In the end we paid over US$20k for a highly spec'd 1530 + C machine. Zach, who runs Omni, admitted during one of the many discussions over changes they needed (after our deposit was paid) that he "hadn't read the agreement / Specification / PO". This was despite a months specification with their sales engineer. So it arrived a week ago (5-6 months late) and we are 3 days into commissioning. If your looking for a summary OMNI are simply dishonest and have no workmanship quality - rusty linear rails and rack&pinion (what engineer leaves precision components to rust!!!), swarf and dust left under the rail covers, rails that are wavy +-0.14mm, poor/no sensible engineering design on Z axis (we asked for 500mm travel), even mouse poo in the vacuum pump air filter - the list reads like a comedy. There are a lot better Chinese CNC companies. Don't waste your money with Omni. Irrespective of the words / apparent 1st world marketing that come from this company - don't be fooled.

    Please ask me anything. I made this decision based on a lot of info including posts I read here, so I am keen to add good evidence to the knowledge on Omni. I have 3 years experience with Italian 3 and 5 axis machines and have developed electronics / mechanical products in China and India. Below I will include my commissioning notes as well as the quality and readiness assessment we did before making the final payment.
    Cheers Pete
    Last edited by WhydidIdoit; 11-10-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #2
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    Day 3 of commissioning. Key issues:
    - Tool changer settings out by approx. 1cm so tool change command crashes spindle into tool
    - Mouse pooh in Vacuum pump air filter
    - Y linear rail wavy (+0.14mm – 0.05mm) similar results for both Z and X dimension of Y linear rail. Looking at other rails tomorrow. The claimed accuracy of 0.02mm seems out by a factor of 10.
    - Y axis software limit not set so excess Y axis (Jog or g-code) will crash the controller – requiring a hard reset. Waiting on pass codes so we can correctly set the controller (Syntec 21MA).
    - Base level achieved – ish. Very difficult because of wavy linear rails. We may look at taking the y rails off, cleaning and re-seating because it is likely caused by dirt and/or over torqued fasteners on the rail.
    - Side walls bent. Only cosmetic.
    - Leveling feet needed to be machined so that they could be adjusted. They arrived as a very rough casting.
    - X axis has a squeal. Yasakawa, so Servo should be fine. Likely the bearing on the other end of the reduction belt. Lubricated and will check tomorrow.

  3. #3
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    Seems its not so easy to post attachments. Summary of PO/spec.

    Specification
    Company are purchasing a customised 1530 ATC CNC router from Omni CNC Ltd (Omni). The specifications of the CNC are agreed below.

    Note. Omni are agreeing to each individual specification listed in each specification box. The final 70% payment will not be made until all specifications are met in full.
    AGREE
    CNC frame
    - working area 1550 x 3050 x 550mm
    - heavy duty stone frame per picture to right
    - 3300 kg net (minimum)
    - heat treated after welding for stress relief
    - painted
    - adjustable feet on frame for levelling
    - shims of suitable metal material where required AGREE
    4th axis rotary on machine side per picture to right
    - working area 750mm diameter (minimum)
    - 2 x 300mm diameter chucks
    - 1 x Leadshine ES2-M23485-E5Z 5000ppr motor
    - 1 x Leadshine ES2-DA808 driver
    - Frame weight increase from 3300 kg to 3800 kg net (minimum)
    AGREE
    CNC Controller
    - Syntec 21MA
    - Companywill provide a Fusion 360 Machine file & POST within 2 weeks of machine order
    - Omni will test (and help resolve any problems) in the basic functions of the FUSION 360 Machine file and POST and use it to conduct the testing described on page 3.
    - Includes hand wheel mpg control
    - G/M code written for control of:
    o Dust hood
    o Vacuum
    o Dust collector
    o Tool change
    o Auto tool height sensor
    o At least 3 other outputs – 2 digital and 1 analogue AGREE
    Drivers & Motors
    - Leadshine ES2-M23485-E5Z 5000ppr encoder motors
    - Leadshine ES2-DA808 drivers
    - 1 motor and driver on X axis
    - 2 motors and drivers on Y axis
    - 1 motor and driver on Z axis
    - 1 motor and driver on 4th axis

    AGREE

    Specification continued
    Linear guideway and rack & pinion drive systems
    - Hiwin HGR Series 30mm guideway and bearings on all axis
    o Precision code P (Precision) or better for all guideways and linear bearings
    - Xinyue Helical Rack and Pinion for x/y
    o Accuracy grade 1.25 mode or better
    - TBI 2510 ballscrew for z
    o Accuracy grade C3 or better
    - Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings AGREE
    Spindle and Frequency converter
    - HQD 9kw ATC spindle
    - http://en.han-qi.com/product/92.html
    - Rexroth 11KW VFC AGREE
    Automatic Tool Changer
    - Linear 8 tool changer
    - Tool changer does not affect the working area (3050mm)
    - 8 Tool clamps suitable for ISO30-ER32 tool holders
    - Auto tool calibration tool AGREE
    Vacuum System
    - KVF160 Vacuum pump
    - http://www.sdjqt.com/en/productshow-7-26-1.html
    - Vacuum table combined T-slot extrusion
    - 8 vacuum zones
    - Electronic vacuum switches (1,2,3, 4 and all zones) AGREE
    Electrical
    - 380V, 50Hz, 3 Phase
    - All cabling and wires are CE certified, shielded and labelled with 10 year life expectancy
    - All components, motors, relays and switches to be CE/UL certified
    - Omron E-stops on both sides of the gantry
    - Omron main switch
    - Schneider AC contactor and EMI filter
    - Emergency stop on machine both sides
    - All components are grounded AGREE
    Spare Parts
    - 20 x 100% Carbide Cutting tools
    - 10 x ISO30-ER32 Tool holders
    - 19 x piece collet set (2-20mm)
    - 8 x Clamp
    - 2 x Spanner
    - 1 x Brush
    - 2 x spare pinion gears
    - 2 x spare linear bearings
    - 2 x sets of reduction belts
    - Sealed stripe AGREE
    Other
    - Automatic oil lubrication system
    - Mist coolant spray system
    - Night lamp
    - Hard limit stop and extra travel stop
    - Dust collector and hood AGREE
    Total Price (CIF to Auckland) USD$

  4. #4
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    CNC Router manufactured by Omni CNC Ltd for Company – Readiness and Quality Assessment v03b 5/9/2019 including final proposal to Omni

    Background. Five months ago, Company paid a 30% deposit to Omni CNC for the manufacture of a CNC Router. This note is a readiness and quality assessment based on information supplied by Omni and an onsite quality review by a 3rd party CNC engineer (30/08/2019). 5/9/2019 Company had a detailed discussion with Omni using a senior Chinese Product Manager based in New Zealand to make sure there is a clear understanding of facts.

    Summary. UPDATED 5/9/2019
    The CNC Router Omni have built for Company appears to be built to size, is mostly complete and able to machine parts.
    It is now clear Omni signed the purchase agreement not intending to use the specified components or provide the agreed progress and test reports. Omni did not send agreed confirmation of parts before assembly, have been very slow and difficult to get as built information from and have refused to do the agreed accuracy testing. Omni refused to let Company’s inspection engineer conduct accuracy tests and the machine tests Omni did were done in a way that prevents accuracy measurements. The workmanship of Omni appears poor, with a general disregard for basic engineering quality such as preventing precision parts from developing rust. The Omni CNC was agreed to be ready in two months. It is six months since Company paid the deposit.
    This report summarises the out of specification issues and makes a proposal to Omni CNC for the full and final settlement of the purchase.

    Legend
    Pass/Fail Description
    Pass Evidence supplied shows agreement with the specification.
    Fail Evidence supplied shows partial agreement with the specification.
    Fail Evidence supplied DOES NOT agree with the specification.

    Final proposal to Omni. Company have estimated the fair recompense for the out of specification parts used by Omni CNC at US$ . This does not include any costs for the four-month late delivery. This will not provide Company the agreed specification CNC – that is not possible without replacement of all linear rails, rack & pinions and ballscrew. This simply proposes a way forward between Company and Omni.
    Company propose to pay US$ in full and final payment of the CNC router manufactured for Company. This is arrived at as follows:

    1) Machine accuracy. Including quality of Ballscrew, Rack & Pinion Sets and Linear Rails and Bearings.
    Unpractical to fix. Omni agreed to manufacture a CNC capable of “+- 0.02mm” accuracy for both for XYZ and C axis operation and to do a Ballbar test to confirm this accuracy. Omni have refused to do the Ballbar test and have done machining tests that are unable to be measured for accuracy. Omni refused to allow Company's engineer to test the CNC for accuracy on his visit (30/8/2019).

    Omni have used low precision parts in key areas that govern machine accuracy without Companies knowledge or agreement. This has been verified with the linear rails. Information is not available for the Ballscrew and Rack & Pinion sets, but it is a reasonable assumption that they are not the superior precision grade Omni sold to Company.

    The as built pictures that have been supplied show minor water marks on the Y Linear Rails, rust on the Z axis linear bearings or Rails or both and rust on the Rack & Pinion’s and Ballscrew. Given the low quality of general workmanship and refusal to allow any accuracy testing, an educated guess would put machine accuracy at +- 0.1mm. While some areas may be able to be reworked in New Zealand, it is likely we will find the poor workmanship extends to fundamental CNC machine setup that will be unpractical to fix. It may also be that the rusting bearings, ballscrew / nut and pinion gears will need to be replaced.

    2) Fusion 360 POST $0 While not perfect (because we have not seen C axis machining, nor concrete proof of various features of the POST) Company accept Omni have now done a reasonable amount of work towards the agreed specification.

    3) Servos and Drivers $ Omni agreed to use identical Drivers and Servos on all axis so that the C axis components could be used for spares if needs be. Without agreement, Omni downgraded the C axis components (Servo and Driver).

    4) Vacuum Pump $0 While not perfect (we do not have verification of serial number or model number) the vacuum pump looks to be the correct model and performance.

    5) Vacuum table $ Omni agreed to provide an 8-zone vacuum table. 8/2019 Omni advised they would provide a 2 zone vacuum table. No photos have shown that the vacuum table has been tested or functions.

    6) Spindle $0 The spindle shows signs of poor workmanship.

    7) Timefame ? Omni proposed a 60day manufacturing timeframe. We are nearing 6 months.

    Total $

    Pass
    General Size (X,Y,Z) and C seem to be in agreement with the specification. The frame looks heavy duty (8mm plus) according to Frank.

    Verification of correct parts
    Part description
    Picture
    Pass / Fail
    1. NC Controller
    (with model and serial # visible)



    Pass
    2. Servo motors.
    5 sets,
    with model and serial #. Fail. Original Specification (28/3/2019), agreed all 5 Servos to be the same. This was discussed with Omni and done purposefully so that the “C” Servo could be used as a spare for the critical X, Y and Z Servo motors.

    Omni did not supply agreed verification of model and serial numbers prior to assembly. After assembly it is difficult to gain access and hence only two Servos can be verified. Omni have supplied an 850W Yaskawa Servo. This is correct. Omni have incorrectly supplied a Yaskawa 750W Servo for the C axis.


    3. Drives. 5 sets, with model and serial # visible. Fail. Original Specification (28/3/2019), agreed all 5 Drivers to be the same. This was discussed with Omni and done purposefully so that the “C” Driver could be used as a spare for the critical X, Y and Z Drivers.
    Omni have supplied 4 x 1kW drivers. This is correct. Omni have incorrectly supplied 1 x 750W driver.

    4. Relays, switches, power supply and VFD (with CSA/UL listing visible). Pass. The VFD, Power Supply and Relays appear to match specification.

    5. Control cabinet and Wire (with CSA/UL listing visible). Refer pictures above and below. Pass. The Control Cabinet appears well organised with labelled cabling. Some cabling and most devices feature CE certification.


    6. Spindle (with model and serial # visible). Fail. The spindle is the correct model. However, it has been installed poorly with cosmetic damage to the control box.

    7. Hiwin HGR Series 30mm linear guideway and bearings on all axis. Precision code P (Precision) or better for all guideways and linear bearings. Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings. Fail. Omni have incorrectly supplied HGR accuracy code C rails. Photos show minor spot water corrosion on the X or Y rails and corrosion on the Z rails or bearings or both (refer picture below 9. Ballscrew).

    8. Xinyue Helical Rack and Pinion for x/y. Accuracy grade 1.25 mode or better. Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings. Fail. Evidence of the model number and grade of the sets of Helical Rack and Pinions have not been supplied. Multiple photos show surface corrosion on the teeth of both.

    9. TBI 2510 ball screw for z. Accuracy grade C3 or better. Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings. Fail

    Evidence of the model number and serial number of the ball screw has not been supplied. The information supplied by Omni shows surface corrosion on the screw or nut or both.

    10. Vacuum pump
    (with model and serial # visible). Fail. Evidence of the model number and serial number of the Vacuum pump has not been supplied. The stated performance appears to be slightly above the specification agreed.


    11. Fusion 360 POST verification
    UPDATED 2/9/2019
    Company sent a FANUC POST revision 42115 to Omni for testing. This POST had been successfully used by another CNC user with the Syntec 21MA for several years.
    2/9/2019 Omni sent Company FANUC POST revision 42357 and M codes for Vacuum pump, Dust collector and Spindle brush.
    Videos have been received showing machining of two simple parts. Fred confirmed these parts were machined on Companies CNC using Fusion 360.

    While this is not perfect because we have not seen C axis, nor concrete proof of various aspects of the POST, Company agree Omni have done a reasonable amount of work towards the agreed specification. Pass
    12. Overall machine accuracy
    Omni agreed to manufacture a CNC capable of “+- 0.02mm” accuracy for both for XYZ and C axis operation and to do Ballbar testing by way of confirmation.

    Omni have refused to do the Ballbar test and have done machining tests that are unable to be verified for accuracy. Omni refused to allow Companies engineer to test the CNC for accuracy on his visit (30/8/2019).
    Omni have used low precision parts in key areas that govern machine accuracy without Companies knowledge or agreement. This has been verified for the linear rails. Information is not available for the Ballscrew and Rack & Pinion sets, but it is a reasonable assumption that they are not the superior precision grade Omni sold to Company, but rather conventional Chinese domestic market components. The as built pictures that have been supplied show minor water marks and corrosion on the Linear Rails or linear bearings or both and rust on the Rack & Pinion and Ballscrew. Given the low quality of general workmanship and refusal to allow any accuracy testing, an educated guess would put machine accuracy at +- 0.1mm. While some areas may be able to be cleaned and reworked in New Zealand, it is likely we will find the poor workmanship extends to fundamental CNC machine setup that will be unpractical to fix. It may also be that some bearings and precision parts will need to be replaced. Fail.
    Last edited by WhydidIdoit; 11-10-2019 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #5
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    For clarity, Omni came back with either we pay the full amount, or no machine. So we paid the full amount.

  6. #6
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    Re: I would not buy a wheel barrow from Omni - 6 months late, lies & a crap machine

    Quote Originally Posted by WhydidIdoit View Post
    For clarity, Omni came back with either we pay the full amount, or no machine. So we paid the full amount.
    You are not the first to have problems with this company and won't be the last
    Mactec54

  7. #7

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    Re: I would not buy a wheel barrow from Omni - 6 months late, lies & a crap machine

    Sorry to hear about this. It really sucks!!

  8. #8
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    Did they seem to be better a year or two back? In hindsight they were the wrong company for what we wanted (higher specd machine). What is so frustrating is that with a small increase in design and craftsmanship, similar materials and a tad more quality, a Chinese CNC company could take the world by storm...

  9. #9
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    Thanks. We own it now. So having fun fixing...

  10. #10
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    Day 4 of commissioning. Math by Omni. 0.3mm < 0.02mm

    We spent most of the morning dial testing the linear rails. In truth, it got so discouraging we stopped testing after the y rails.

    At first we thought the primary y rail may just be bad – but turns out this was twice as good as the secondary y rail. So summary:
    y rail 1
    - deviation in x +0.14mm -0.05mm
    - deviation in z approx. +- 0.1mm
    y rail 2
    - deviation in x +0.3mm!! -0.1mm
    - deviation in z approx. +- 0.1mm

    We are planning to remove, clean and re seat the rails next month when we replace the Z axis assembly. For the moment we will live with the problem.
    For those a bit confused by the numbers it is a simple case of adding the variance of all axis to give the total machine accuracy. So if we believe the 0.02mm accuracy claim, the variation in the y rails (say in Z direction) plus the variation in the x rails (also in Z direction) plus any variation in Z must be less than 0.02mm. At the risk of stating the obvious, our machine as it arrived is 10-30x less accurate than promised.

    Other testing:
    - The rubbing sound on X axis turns out to be misaligned pulley bearing. The belt gravitates to the top of the pulley because of the misalignment and then rubs / squeaks. The misalignment is quite aggressive so will probably chew the belt edge. We will address when we replace the Z axis.
    - Despite our cleaning with a brass wire brush, the y axis racks are still dirty. We are spraying them with CRC and slowly the dust and rust are cleaning up.
    - We pulled down the adjustment feet, cleaned and lubricated. Makes fine leveling a lot easier.
    - We purchased a 1m straight edge and are using this on top of the Y linear rails when we level. The 1m straight edge helps average the z variations and so enable us to do a better job of leveling the machine. Also, we wrote the mis alignment readings on the CNC base. It makes it a lot easier to understand and compensate.

  11. #11
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    Re: I would not buy a wheel barrow from Omni - 6 months late, lies & a crap machine

    You certainly have high expectations of accuracy from a router.If its any consolation,I have found worse on a machine by another company-now thankfully out of business-the X axis rails dipped by 1.3mm on one side and 1.9mm on the other side of the machine.As measured by my 2 metre straight edge.I would guess that the average user ,cutting panels or signs wouldn't find much beyond the binding you mentioned and with any luck the machine wouldn't have been assembled in quite such a haphazard manner.What products do you intend to make and what are the tolerances on your parts?I seriously doubt that any router will produce parts to an accuracy of 0.02mm with reference to the design as there are so many ways for deviation to creep in-tool flex,spindle bearing play, backlash on ballscrews and play in the linear bearings multiplied by distance.I suggest you set up a dial gauge near the shank of a typical tool and measure the flex when you exert a force on it parallel to the X axis and perpendicular to the X axis on another setup.For force,just think how hard you would be pushing a 1/2 inch hand router for the same cut you intend to do on the machine.

    For comparison,I used to operate a machine that had a digital position readout that went to four figures.One of the other departmental mangers thought this represented the accuracy that could be achieved.I had to point out to him that I knew a man who has a Lada car with a speedometer that went to 140 mph-didn't mean it could do that speed though.

  12. #12
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    Yeh, you are dead right. I have some background in this and agree with your sentiments on 0.02mm being very hard / un achievable. But it was Omni who offered the 0.02mm. We asked how accurate they could make it if we paid more and they said 0.02mm. We should have gone with Eastrise who said 0.02mm was too hard but 0.05 achievable if we paid for the upgraded components. What I was pi88ed about was that Omni promised this and a bunch of other things that never materialized. And worse, the workmanship is plain horrible. We paid additional for high precision rails, ball screw etc (as well as Yasakawa / Syntec). And then after deposit they said ooops - sorry we didn't read the PO/Spec. But despite my ranting, I love CNC. We will pull the rails off, fix Z and make this into a good machine. In answer to your question. 80% plastic guarding that is fine with +-0.5mm. 20% aluminium parts -more of a hobby and direction I want to go in - hence we asked what could be achieved and choose the stone bed, upgrade components etc.

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