[kmagyoyo]

I'd like to use a spindle on my conversion project, the variety of inexpensive spindles is mind boggling. I don't want to waste time with something that's going to be sloppy after 100 hours. Thinking 2-3 kW would be about right, it's just for home use.

Are any of the eBay Chinese spindles decent? Or is there a reputable brand that offers something affordable?

Sorry if this question has been asked a million times, but after 30 minutes with the forum search I have no answers.

[ubergeekseven]

I'd like to use a spindle on my conversion project, the variety of inexpensive spindles is mind boggling. I don't want to waste time with something that's going to be sloppy after 100 hours. Thinking 2-3 kW would be about right, it's just for home use.

Are any of the eBay Chinese spindles decent? Or is there a reputable brand that offers something affordable?

Sorry if this question has been asked a million times, but after 30 minutes with the forum search I have no answers.

I'd like to see a compiled list over time somewhere. I too have not yet purchased a spindle because so many look exactly the same and I have no experience with them. I have a cncrouterparts/avid machine and their spindle is pricy compared to what looks exactly the same online elsewhere.
3kw air cooled on their site can be had for $500-800 on Chinese sites.

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[ger21]

The most popular by far are the $200-$300 chinese spindles from Ebay or Amazon. Most people get years of use out of them. But if you don't set up the VFD correctly, you can destroy them almost instantly.

The next step up is probably the Hertz spindles from Turkey, which you can find on Ebay. But I think a member here ordered one earlier this year, and got a spindle with different specs than what he ordered. And it's not really practical to return them.

Next would be the Avid CNC spindle, or a spindle from UGRA CNC. These are slightly higher quality Chinese spindles. But you're paying about 4x the price of the Ebay spindles.

Then maybe Teknomotor.

And then HSD and other high end spindles.

[nlancaster]

Chinese 2.2KW spindle and VFD $299, bought 5 years ago. No idea on hours but it hsa been run and used nearly every week for 5 years, a few hours a week.

[kmagyoyo]

Chinesium seems like the best choice for my application...for those who are happy with theirs, which brand do you have?

[ubergeekseven]

Chinese 2.2KW spindle and VFD $299, bought 5 years ago. No idea on hours but it hsa been run and used nearly every week for 5 years, a few hours a week.

Can you point to the exact one you have, by chance? I'll throw $300 at it to try.

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[coherent]

Ive had a HY (Huanyang) 2.2kw air cooled spindle and VFD for a few years now. I use it regularly and have had no issues. They are available on both Ebay and Amazon. You may find that there are HY knockoffs around that aren't quite as good, so keep that in mind. I'd pretty much ignore all the "special bearings" bs you see on some ads and just get a genuine HY. Setup can be a bit tricky, but there are plenty of threads and help videos online if you search. I use the HY plugin with a cheap USB to RS485 adapter from ebay ($3-4) to control on/off rpm etc via gcode easily with a simple two wire connection and it works fine for both mach and uccnc..

[nlancaster]

Huanyang spindle and vfd for the last 5 years.

[ubergeekseven]

Ive had a HY (Huanyang) 2.2kw air cooled spindle and VFD for a few years now. I use it regularly and have had no issues. They are available on both Ebay and Amazon. You may find that there are HY knockoffs around that aren't quite as good, so keep that in mind. I'd pretty much ignore all the "special bearings" bs you see on some ads and just get a genuine HY. Setup can be a bit tricky, but there are plenty of threads and help videos online if you search. I use the HY plugin with a cheap USB to RS485 adapter from ebay ($3-4) to control on/off rpm etc via gcode easily with a simple two wire connection and it works fine for both mach and uccnc..

Huanyang spindle and vfd for the last 5 years.

Nice. Thanks

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[TTalma]

Personally I would just buy a high end used spindle, and go for around 3kw or maybe even larger. Perske and Colombo come to mind, and a VFD like Delta, Hitachi, or Woods. You could probably buy something today for $500 or less. A little patience will get you a high quality spindle that will serve a home shop forever for even less. Some people don't like to take a risk on used stuff, but personally I would rather risk a few hundred on something that has support and can be repaired, then something that may not work out of the box, where you probably can't even return it.

I have called Delta, and they don't ask where or when you bought it, just the model number. The techs I have spoken to know what they are talking about have been able to get me running. I don't think you would get that kind of service with a generic Chinese spindle. Sometimes part of the cost is piece of mind.

[ger21]

Just be aware that having a high end spindle rebuilt can easily cost $1500 or more. They don't last forever.

[kmagyoyo]

I’m looking at this one mostly because it has a bolt pattern that fits well on my mounting plate. That and it has a 1 year warranty from a seller that so far I have read good things about. Brand appears to be HQD which they are hoping you won’t notice isn’t HSD.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F254323734167

As far as VFDs, how are the bundled units? I’m inclined to go name-brand on the VFD since they aren’t terribly expensive. Having a readable manual and good tech support is worth the extra coin when it comes to fiddly electronics with lots of buttons.

[ubergeekseven]

I’m looking at this one mostly because it has a bolt pattern that fits well on my mounting plate. That and it has a 1 year warranty from a seller that so far I have read good things about. Brand appears to be HQD which they are hoping you won’t notice isn’t HSD.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F254323734167

As far as VFDs, how are the bundled units? I’m inclined to go name-brand on the VFD since they aren’t terribly expensive. Having a readable manual and good tech support is worth the extra coin when it comes to fiddly electronics with lots of buttons.

I'm looking at these right now as well. Why choose 18000 over 24000 rpm? I'm unsure of the difference and wondering what to get myself. Do you lose something by getting the 400hz 24000rpm over the 300hz 18000?

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[kmagyoyo]

I’m not sure of any advantage of one over the other. As far as feeds and speeds, a higher RPM would enable you to push a faster feed but a decent chip load for panel goods is about 450 IPM at 18,000 RPM. How much faster can a DIY machine go?

[ubergeekseven]

I’m not sure of any advantage of one over the other. As far as feeds and speeds, a higher RPM would enable you to push a faster feed but a decent chip load for panel goods is about 450 IPM at 18,000 RPM. How much faster can a DIY machine go?

Mine can't go that fast. That helps. Thanks

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[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I think an important question is what you want to cut. You'll no doubt have seen any number of spindles that are rated at 24000 rpm with
a 400Hz input.

Lets say you get a 2.2kW unit, about the biggest practical spindle for a single phase domestic supply, then the rated torque is:
T=2200 / (2 x PI x 24000 / 60 )
=0.87Nm

Less than 1Nm!!!! That's not going to spin a big tool in tough material, not by a long shot!

These spindles spin fast but have low torque. They are good for engraving and woodworking. They do a pretty good job, with small diameter
tools, in brass and aluminum. They don't have the torque to cut iron, steel or stainless. For the latter group of materials you need slow speeds,
say 3000 rpm but torque of 4-10Nm to spin tools up to 12-16mm diameter.

The long and short of it is 'cutting steel demands a very rigid machine with a high torque spindle and is a world of difference to a router'.

If you want to engrave, cut wood, aluminum and brass then one of the Chinese 24000 rpm spindles will be fine. If you want to cut steel
then you need to do a lot more research.

I agree with an earlier poster about Delta. Delta is a Taiwanese brand manufactured in China. I have used them with great success,
both VFDs and AC servos. Quality at a good, not bargain basement, just a good price.

I bought an 800W Mechatron spindle from Germany.....very happy with it but rather more expensive than Chinese.

https://www.mechatron-gmbh.de/filead...08-24-ER11.pdf

Craig

[ihavenofish]

I've been looking for a cheap spindle for my new little router for cutting metal. I still have not decided yet, but here's my findings of what's out there:

The default italian air cooled ER spindles are hard to beat for wood and plastic work. They seem expensive at first, but there is a degree of guaranteed performance and support with them. My go to is tekno. Bit less money and basically the same part as an HSD.

The water cooled Chinese spindles all look the same, but are very much not the same, and its difficult to know which is better, because price alone doesn't always tell you that. What I did find was many people have confidence in jianken. Many of the more expensive generic Chinese spindles you see are jianken JGD models but usually the sellers don't tell you that. You can buy directly from jinaken, their single unit pricing and shipping is competitive. It's about $300ish for the 2.2kw 80mm spindles, and $1400 for an 80mm ATC spindle (that's high on my list of options). They also do a 62mm spindle in 40000rpm 750w for $270 - also on my option list.

A note on power ratings.

Companies like teknomotor, and HSD will give you power numbers with a graph AND a duty cycle. So, the tekno 750w spindle is 750w OUTPUT S1 continuous operation at the specified rpm (12, 18 or 24krpm). Larger spindles will also have an intermittent rating (S6, 25% for example) which tells you how far they can be pushed for short durations. S6 25% would be 2.5 out of every 10 minutes at the specified numbers.

The Chinese companies, including jinaken, can be trickier to nail down. As an example, I see a "2.2kw" 24krpm Chinese spindle that says it has 0.7nm. Well, that's not 2.2kw output then is it. That's 1.7kw. The 2.2kw is likely the power draw, not the output. They also don't clearly state the duty cycle often. Is the 1.7kw continuous? Maybe, maybe not. So, you need to have a little "grain of salt" expectation for the labeled power of any spindle that doesn't have clearly specified duty cycles. What this means is the 750w tekno spindle may in fact have more useful power and torque for your application than a randomly selected 2.2kw water cooled model.

On your home depot hand router, the power ratings are - quite literally - the most current draw before that device bursts into flames. Your 1hp bosch colt does not have 1hp in cnc duty. Not anywhere close. So virtually ANY real cnc spindle, even a 280w tekno will be a world of improvement.

Another thing to think about is the speed ranges. There are generally 3 types of spindles out there - water cooled, fan cooled, and shaft driven turbine cooled. Shaft driven turbine models do NOT operate at low speed. you can most certainly get a vector drive and MAKE them run at low speed, but they will have zero cooling and die instantly. If you want to run under 12000rpm, you are not getting one of those spindles. With a big enough pump, water cooled spindles can run slow with full torque, however, the manufacturers (like jianken) tell you not to operate below 12-15000rpm (depends on the model obviously). You have very little power at these low speed anyway, so I guess it makes sense (remember, that 2.2kw is really only 1.7, and therefore 425w at 6000rpm, and likely not continuous at that. If you need low speed, you need either a proper water cooled milling spindle (usually many thousands of dollars) or an electric fan cooled model rated for that operation. The tekno fan cooled models are usually 6000rpm, sometimes 3000rpm for the larger ones (bigger fan, more thermal mass).

Last, mounting is actually very important. I put a tekno 750w spindle on a novakon mill and machined 6061 aluminium parts with 1/4" and 3/8" cutters. No shortage of power in this application, worked great, BUT, the 4 narrowly spaced bolts holing the aluminium housing to the mill are NOT very strong. The whole spindle housing will vibrate. I put a big c clamp on the spindle body and it helped. Eventually I machined a clamp for the steel nose of the spindle to mount it and it made a vast different to rigidity. So the big clamps around a round water cooled spindle are going to be generally much more rigid that the square block air cooled spindles, despite the block spindles giving a look of sturdiness. If you're cutting a lot of metal and using low speeds, keep this in mind.


As others have mentioned, don't skimp on the vfd. Delta is great, easy to get anywhere (you can even get one same day shipped from digikey in an emergency, and their prices are about the same as everyone else when you factor the free shipping). They are fairly cheap even compared to the Chinese vfds and have full well written instructions, and the better models have auto configuring features making setups super easy. The biggest issue with the cheap vfd's is not that they don't work well, but its so hard and confusing to actually get them going. Just look at the countless threads on that topic here. As with the spindle, note the power ratings on vfd's. A 750w rating on a delta MS300 vfd means it runs a 750w OUTPUT spindle continuously, with ample intermittent duty use.

So, what spindle should I buy? haha. I had 62mm and 80mm clamps made - and I will be running the entire machine for at least several months on 15A 110v. I wish there was a 750w (output) fan cooled steel nosed 4 bearing spindle for $200-$400.

[wizard]

Ihavenofish points out an important point with respect to much of the Chinese produced machinery. That is specs for horsepower are often input power to the system. In some cases it amounts to false advertising as the motors can’t even sustain those numbers long befor burning up. However even if the power numbers honestly reflect power input under load conditions it isn’t what is expected in the west (USA anyways) where we expect to be able to get that power at the output shaft. I’ve actually have been burnt by this buying other shop tools.

Now that being said I do believe most of the Chinese spindles are accurately rated, at least better than some of the other stuff coming from China. The problem is often the user not understanding the torque - speed relationship to get those power numbers. In simple terms you don’t need a lot of torque at 25000 or 30000 RPM to output 2 KW of energy. Torque however is very important as you try to lower the spindle speed to something suitable for the work in progress. As someone noted above large diameter cutters can be a problem as you lower the spindle speed. To really understand how a spindle will perform you need the torque and power curves. Beyond that cooling is a huge issue as the RPMs slow down. This especially if one tries to push the spindle beyond its capabilities.

I’m actually surprised that there isn’t a greater use of belt driven spindles on home builds. It is a fairly cheap way to have the option of torque at low RPMs and yet be able to obtain reasonable routing RPMs. Belt drives are perhaps the cheapest way to a wide range of useable spindle RPMs.

[ihavenofish]

Belt is another other option on my list. Belt will cost more, as you need a spindle, motor, pulleys, and more complex mounting brackets, but the resulting spindle performance is not in the same league to similarly priced router spindles. Even the cheapest belt spindles will be 10 times more rigid as they usually have much larger bearings, more bearings, and heavy steel housings.


Direct drive is the last option that you almost never see except on high end machining centres. The downside with them for our use is common motors are either low speed high torque (3000rpm ac servo) or the same high speed low torque motors in the regular router spindles. Well priced 12000-15000rpm motor and drive kits really don't exist on the market.

My ideal non ATC mini metal router spindle is probably an 400w AC servo that runs out to 12krpm on the back of an ER32 shaft. A 400w rating in an ac servo is a whole different ballgame compared to a 400w high speed induction motor. Unfortunately that spindle configuration doesn't exist cheaply.... yet.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
as I posted earlier I have a 750W 24000 rpm spindle. In my ignorance I thought it would cut steel if I took light enough cuts.
My optimism was misplaced. I did manage to cut steel by slowing the spindle to 9000 rpm and using a 3mm diameter tool
and very VERY light cuts. The slightest mistake with your programming or feed rate and the spindle would stall and break the tool.

I was rather disappointed, but now realize that my expectation was TOTALLY unrealistic.

What I did was make my own spindle based on an Allen Bradley 1.8kW 6Nm (cont) AC servo. I bought a Rego-Fix ER25 cylindrical
tool holder, fitted matched P4 NSK angular contact bearings in my own housing. I made it so it fits the same clamp as my highspeed spindle.
Note that I direct coupled the servo and tool holder so 3500 rpm is max.

It works really well in steel and stainless with tools up to 16mm diameter up to the limit of the rigidity of my mill.

I would have to recommend either a direct or belt coupled servo motor for a spindle IF you require high torque for cutting steel.
My experience is that the highseed spindles, at least those that hobbyists can power at home, say less than 2.2kW, are not up to
cutting steel.

Craig