[Portlyinohio]

Tormach not being high pressure is a good sign , I'm going to give them a call this week .

I have a couple ongoing bad experiences with sales , one is the local snap-on truck . Three years ago my nephew turned me onto a deal , a kid he worked with was taking a different job and was looking to unload his toolbox for the payoff .
It was a very good deal so I gave the snap on guy his cash and went merrily on my way . Till the following Wednesday when he showed up in my driveway, and nearly every Wednesday since then he has shown up wasting an hour of my time . The only other thing I've bought from him was a set of o ring pics.
I don't know why he keeps showing up .
And I have at least two tool salesman call every week , another waste of time , currently I might buy a couple drills , and endmill or two and possibly a single tap every month .
The $1 commission they earn from me a month must be pretty important.

Ok sales rant off

Back to probes and haimers , if I'm reading things correctly a haimer is a good solid middle ground as far as speed and accuracy goes . Making it a very useful and worthwhile tool to have .

Thinking along those lines , edge technologies has an analog tool setter for around $100. I have a couple other things they make and have been very happy with the quality .
Is there any good reason to not go that route

[kstrauss]

I also like stuff from Edge. (See my article in the Jan/Feb 2020 issue of Home Shop Machinist Magazine.) That said, a $100 Chinese ETS might be a better buy. With the Edge tool setter you still have to enter the measurement into your offsets table with the possibility of a transcription error. Just a thought...

[mountaindew]

I also like stuff from Edge. (See my article in the Jan/Feb 2020 issue of Home Shop Machinist Magazine.) That said, a $100 Chinese ETS might be a better buy. With the Edge tool setter you still have to enter the measurement into your offsets table with the possibility of a transcription error. Just a thought...

Nice to know you write some articles. Maybe add this to reading lists.


OP:
No sales calls from Tormach, Maybe if I was a school district or something. They will follow up with calls about problems or questions you have about purchase or setup. I would read all the manuals to the machine and options a couple times. Then take my time and carefully move, set and assemble the machine. As you mentioned they are expensive and it would be a gut punch to damage the machine or yourself setting it up. Its going to take some time to get everything dialed in. Then more time to master using some decent cad/cam software. Then your down to refining your "art to part" work flow. Sounds easy enough to me after years of doing it. lol

[CL_MotoTech]

That probe looks interesting although the 0.5 pound (2.5N) Z-axis trigger seems like a lot since I would want to sometimes use it on plastic. Please let us know how it works out.

Will do! I wonder what the force of the Tormach passive probe is? I know my Renishaw certainly has less force via calibrated elbow, but it's also a very large probe for a G0704 so I tend not to use it.

For the record, I don't own or operate a Tormach or PP. So as far as probing routines, etc., I have no idea what it offers. OP, you are likely better off listening to people with a Tormach. That said, I love my touch probe and won't ever be going back. It's just too easy.

[maker of things]

Anyone have any idea of what kind of lead time I can expect between ordering a machine and it showing up at my door .


My time constraints are , I need at least three weeks to catch up on my current work and try to get a bit ahead .
And I need at least one more week to give the shop a thorough cleaning and re-organise to make room .

Tormach is using a third party to warehouse and ship and I don't feel they really have any control over timing. I had two different experiences this (2019) year. When I got my mill in the spring I had a friend receive at his dock then I put on my trailer and hauled home. Within days of placing my order, packages started showing up. Freight showed up multiple times. Within 3 weeks I had everything. A couple weeks ago I got my lathe I asked them to hold at the freight terminal for me to pickup. About two weeks after I placed the order I got a call from the trucker that he had my machine as was looking for the address. You really don't get any warning that the machine is going to be at your place until a couple hours before.

I would wait to order until all your ducks are lined up, unless Tormach is out of stock I would guess 1-3 weeks. At least to Michigan.

Tormach definitely will not call and hassle you. Call or email them, no worries.

[number40Fan]

That sucks to hear your freight company dropped the ball like that.

Mine called a few days ahead on the first run of parts. It was a Thursday and I was hoping they could have had it delivered on Friday, but they couldn't until Monday.

Monday came around and the driver called with a 10 minute heads up.

When he arrived, I wondered why there was just the small packages. Emailed Tormach asking about the rest of the pieces and I think I had a call from the freight company scheduling delivery of the main unit before Tormach emailed me back (within 30 minutes). I honestly thought they were trying to schedule a delivery for the stuff they already dropped off. Two days later, the main unit arrived. Again, 10 minute heads up from the driver.

[Portlyinohio]

I'm going to give tormach a call tomarow morning and see what they have to say .
I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and stop accepting new orders for about two weeks . It's something I need to do anyway so I can get caught up .

I'm starting to feel a good bit less nervous about this , you guys have given some good advice . Especially helpful was the advice to go with er collets and holders for tool holding .
I think that was a good call .

I am still a little up in the air on work holding . If I look strictly at what I'm doing now , one vice would be sufficient. Two would be spectacular. And once I get going and gain some proficiency a few fixture plates would just be like heaven .
I have room in my budget for pair , I'm inclined to get them .
Probing and tool setting . I do want a electronic probe and tool setter . But I think I might be more comfortable starting with a haimer for probing And an anolog tool height gauge .


And that will about wipe out my budget with a few hundred to spare .


And a question just because I keep seeing it .
The superfly fly cutter , is it as good as tormach tries to make look .
I don't do any aluminum work to speak of and because my g0704 has plastic gears I've never bothered with a fly cutter and just stuck with a face mill for surfacing and squaring up stock .
I don't have any plans on getting one , just curious

[kstrauss]

I am scared of the Superfly since it is severely unbalanced! I haven't used mine since I managed to start my 770 spindle at 10K RPM with a Superfly and almost wet my pants before I could hit eStop. My alternative is to use a 4-insert facemill with 2 Superfly (SEHT) inserts.

If anyone is interested in a genuine Tormach Superfly in excellent condition PM me. CDN $100 including shipping to a Canadian address.

[Portlyinohio]

Yikes , that would be a bit scary .
I've been pretty happy with a face mill and never felt the need to try a fly cutter .
If I want a flat , smooth and pretty surface without surface grinding I just slap it on the shaper and finish with a shear tool .

[maker of things]

you can always buy additional workholding once you see how you use the machine. I bought 2 orange vises and 2 double station SMW mod vises because I "knew" I was going to do a lot of that kind of work. I have only used one vise in 9 months. I did have to set up a lathe chuck on a sub plate though, didn't expect that.

[mountaindew]

If anyone is interested in a genuine Tormach Superfly in excellent condition PM me. CDN $100 including shipping to a Canadian address.

Darn, Just purchased 2nd one a month ago because I hit that sucker on a lifted part in some soft Jaws. Thought I bent it or something because the mirror finish you get was not as nice. While waiting for another one I messed with it and repositioned the fly bar and changed insert. Looks like its performing correctly and so I now have one for alum and one with steel/gp inserts.
They are spooky looking when running at first, but anymore almost every single thing I make starts with a fly cutter surface op.

[Portlyinohio]

So I had a conversation with tormach , wasn't so helpful on the shipping . You'd think sales would be on the up and up on that .

But if i ordered today boxes would start showing up in 7-10 days with no real rhyme or reason or order .

I took my last paid order today , two weeks to get all my work up to date and I think I'll be ready to send a check .

[maker of things]

So I had a conversation with tormach , wasn't so helpful on the shipping . You'd think sales would be on the up and up on that .

But if i ordered today boxes would start showing up in 7-10 days with no real rhyme or reason or order .

I took my last paid order today , two weeks to get all my work up to date and I think I'll be ready to send a check .

Tormach could definitely stand to work on that. At least if you work from home, you will be there when the stuff starts showing up. What did you decide on to order?

[Portlyinohio]

I am going to get
770m with the stand . Power drawbar and fogbuster .
And a fairly long list of tool holders .

I'll probably get a haimer from tormach as well , but I'll price around first .
I've still got a work holding dilemma in my head , it's down to a pair of 4 inch glacern vices or a single top of the line vice like orange . I think the pair is going to win .

I also have a fairly big list of cutting tools started to make the switch from hss to carbide .
And of course I have few new tools I want to try out like drills and such . '

But the star of the day ... weighed on my bathroom scale last night as I broke it down into more manageable sized buckets .

681 lbs of change was worth ......... $8250 almost on the nose .
I very nearly had a heart attack this morning when the machine finally spit out a total . My girlfriend walked out of the bank in daze , I found her twenty minutes later down the street in a jewelry store .

I didn't expect to have nearly that much money in change , this puts me at a point where if I am careful and pinch a few more dollars out of my savings I can swing this without any financing .

[jwatte]

681 lbs of change was worth ......... $8250 almost on the nose .

Wow!

Are we lucky enough that you actually took a picture? I'd love to see that ;-)

[Portlyinohio]

Actually , the little woman took a few pictures .
When she gets home from work I'll put some up .

Once we was done sorting and cashing in the ticket I asked what was the biggest change cash out she seen .
I wasn't even close , one old couple cashed in newly $50,000
And she said $5000-$10,000 wasn't all that unusual , she would see that 10-12 times a year .

Oh and I know that seems like a whole lot of money , but it did take 23 years to save that much , the actual weight was considerably more then I guesstimated

[maker of things]

I am going to get
770m with the stand . Power drawbar and fogbuster .
And a fairly long list of tool holders .

I'll probably get a haimer from tormach as well , but I'll price around first .
I've still got a work holding dilemma in my head , it's down to a pair of 4 inch glacern vices or a single top of the line vice like orange . I think the pair is going to win .

I also have a fairly big list of cutting tools started to make the switch from hss to carbide .
And of course I have few new tools I want to try out like drills and such . '

.

The last Haimer I bought from Amazon warehouse deals as an open box then bought the tts adapter and shaved $75-100 off. Get an extra tip right out of the gate too. As to vises, I found that with cnc and fusion I hold work entirely different to how I do on manual machines. In the vise I so far have exclusively used talon grips and soft jaws. If you end up wanting to convert a vise to that style, you may end up spending more than buying an orange. If you are running the same parts over and over, a traditional vise is probably the least efficient way to do that. zero point systems, pallets, multipart fixtures, mitee bites, dovetail...so...many...options. At least be aware. A vise is a large buy both in dollars and space, and they make them every day.

Regardless you are about to start a whole new adventure, have fun.

[Portlyinohio]

I tried to post a couple pics , so I guess I need to use a hosting service ?

Anyhoo . For what I want to do efficiency doesn't play much of a role , I won't be doing anything close to what might be considered high volume , it would be a stretch to even consider using volume as a descriptor.

My initial production goal is the long range sight I make , as I mentioned earlier a cnc mill will essentially turn a week's work into a single day .
Right now I sell a sight about every 5 weeks because I don't have time to make more .
I get guys asking me for one on average twice a week .
By the time you cut out the tire kickers and cheapskates and such people and say I actually sell two sights a month .

Instead of $800 income over 5 weeks , I now have $1600 in 4 weeks .
And once I start getting the other things I make on the mill up to speed and selling at current levels I can turn a 40 hour work week into a 20 hour work week with a good bit more income .
Leaving me with plenty of time to develop new stuff to make and sell . .. or just live a easier life by working less .

[sansbury]

I should change my username to PortlyInBoston, lol....

First congratulations on what you've done. As a business owner I know the work it takes to build up a product business and it is not easy under the best of circumstances, so cheers to your success so far!

I have had an 1100 for very low-volume prototype use the past 6 years and have learned a few things. For me, efficiency is less about volume than it is about flexibility. I make many different parts, so the ability to quickly set up a new part is key. Right now I am using a Shars 550V vise with the Carvesmart and Talon Grip jaw system. The Shars vise is cheap Chinese stuff but the quality is fine and it is very well-sized for the 1100. Unlike other Kurt-style 5" vises it has a very wide opening (almost 7") with the jaws in the inside position. This gives a ton of capacity without moving jaws around which takes time. I love the Orange vise system and the cost was not an issue but size-wise they're just too big for our machines, IMHO.

The Talon Grip jaws are another favorite because you can hold most stock without squaring it up (saves time) and they only need ~.060" to grip so you waste less stock and time milling the back side off. The Carvesmart system lets you swap jaws very quickly and is great if you use a lot of different soft jaws. The 6061 jaw material is reasonably priced. None of this is a must-have like a vise but for me the ~$500 spent here is worth more than it would be on most other areas. I also have a 5" 3-jaw chuck mounted on the table next to the vise which I use for parts made from round which I do many of. I make a lot of round parts on the mill because I don't have a CNC lathe and if I need something rounder than the 1100 can do, I just mill it oversize and finish on the manual lathe. I program round parts to the stock center so that all I need to do is touch off the top of the stock and I can hit "Go."

I also use the passive probe to set up almost every part. It's not as accurate as a Haimer but that has rarely/never been a problem for me when setting up raw stock. I always program my parts so that the top of the bottom left corner is XYZ=0. Then I can toss any piece of stock in the Carvesmart jaws, stick the probe in, run the probing routine, and I'm ready to make chips. Doing things the same way every time reduces opportunities for errors. As I learned to do this I started to crash less and break fewer tools. Same goes for learning how to set up your simulation. If you really want to do it right, learn how to set up the machine model and workholding along with the part so you can simulate the whole setup. I don't use cheap cutting tools and I don't like breaking them because of avoidable mistakes!

Another lesson I've learned is that it's usually worth the time to drill and tap on the mill. Because I'm often making first-article parts I often need to set up new tools, particularly drills and taps (I use and like the T/C holder). To save time I often would just spot out holes on the CNC (I always have a spot drill set up) and then drill and tap them by hand. It works, but after 4-5 holes it doesn't really save time and you can't beat the quality of a CNC-drilled and tapped hole. They look great and are always dead straight.

If you are making any part over and over, it is often more efficient to build fixtures than to use a vise. This is especially true if you have tool changes as you can often design a fixture to hold lots of parts at once, and then you change tools one time per ten parts. A fixture can also help with consistency and packing lots of parts into a small area. If the main costs for your parts are some 6061 stock and time, then a good 5-10 part fixture might allow you to crank these out and reduce cost per part which could create interesting opportunities. Either you could reduce the price and maybe sell a lot more, or just have the time to put towards other things, including going fishing. It would also be a good learning experience in case you ever get a customer who wants 100 pieces of something.

Last thing: as a mechanical designer, the real revolution for me came when I got comfortable with building full assemblies and simulating them in 3D CAD (I use Onshape and Fusion). There is a learning curve but with very good software now effectively free, it's something even a hobbyist can do, and it is very satisfying to design something with five or ten moving parts, mill it all out, and then have everything screw together and work the first time. I spend a lot less time filing, shimming, re-drilling holes, or re-making parts. If you're not familiar yet, that's something I'd start on right away as in my mind it is fundamental to making the most of a CNC tool.

[jwatte]

I like checking full assemblies in Fusion as well.
What I haven't figured out how to do, though, is to simulate tolerances and play.
Do you have a good workflow for this?