[johyn]

Call them what ever you like but when I speak I want people to know what the hell I'm talking about so I'll call them what they are....."Progressives", from Woodrow Wilson forward.

Funny thing about that is, W. Wilson allowed the Federal reserve bank to control our money and the value has shrank "Progressively" since it's enactment. And not much longer after that we were given the wonderful IRS... Progress?:bs:

[infantry11b]

Infantry11b, overstating the obvious is not making a point for dissusion.

I would go so far as to say that if'n you can't define Safety, you will be deceased without knowing it, from one reason or another.

. . .

The broadest sense of the law, "thou shalt not kill," can be interpreted in a million ways without some regulating factors defining the exact nature of the laws application.....and going to war at any time breaks this law without interpretation.

Ian.

first let me tell you that "thou shall not kill" is not the interpretation. Please remember you are talking about one language, converted into another and another, until you get to english.

if you go back to the Hebrew language you will see that what it says is - you shall not MURDER - or another way of saying it - you shall not take INNOCENT LIFE.

if it really was kill, then everyone in the old testament would have been violating the 6th commandment, including God. look it up - and you will see I am correct. which is why words matter and definitions matter. is food safe that has parts of insects in it? you may say no, but a good part of the world lives off insects - such as africia. so when you say safe you have to define what your belief of safe is.

when the government says lead in gas is unsafe, and lead in paint is unsafe, and lead in solder is unsafe, and mercury in fillings and other products is unsafe, but tell us to put a trillion little glass bulbs full of lead and mercury vapor in our homes, then your definition of "safe" is important.

here is the way I see it from you who want to force the rest of us to accept undefined terms and your new god - man made global warming. this is your ilk in a nutshell:

Mommy, Daddy make them do what I say! If they don't I will stamp my little feet and then hold my breath until I turn blue and pass out, just like I do when you tell me that N word - "no."

You know what that means - It means it is all your fault that I passed out because I would not have done it if you had not told me the N word.

Now tell them if they don't do what I want when I want it, if THEY don't believe in man made global warming and keep arguing with me that I will do the same thing to them, and it will all be their fault, and your fault too Mommy and Daddy, because you did not make them believe. So watch out - I'm starting to stamp my little feet right now and you know what happens next.

Kids are so cute; they just keep making me laugh and laugh.

[handlewanker]

Infantry11B, I bet B'OB would say to you when you stamp your little feet and wave your arms in the air, "The Boogeymen gonna get you boy, real good", and as B'OB reaches for the phone all those hot heads, that don't believe Governmenting means "we do it our way", gonna beat a hasty retreat to the nearest wood pile and pray that their arses ain't sticking up 'cos the National Guard gonna blow the sh!t outta them....LOL.

I'd have to state that safety is knowing what has you in it's sights for a tasty dinner, be it a Mosquito or a hunking great Dynaosaur, appropriate action is called for whatever the scenario.

BTW, the Hebrews might have meant Murder, but by definition I don't think you can plead with a jury that the guy that pissed you off and took your wifes handbag didn't deserve to get his brains blown out even if'n he was an illegal alian, high on Coke and carrying a knife.

In other words it's OK, you plead, to burn a guy 'cos, you being instant judge, jury and executioner, decided that you didn't like the way he looked, and looks can kill, well don't they.....he must have done something evil in his life...he just looks like he could.

At the end of the day, what goes around, comes around, and prior to 1950 or so it was usually at the end of a rope, whatever.

On the subject of the pig tailed light bulbs, who actually cares if'n they have a small amount of Mercury in them as long as the system recycles them safely.

They do after all save a huge amount of electricity in their useage, and all the way down the line that translates back to the power production source as an Enviro Protection iniative, do the sums.

If'n the system doesn't safely recycle them, go out and crusade to B'OB that he should make a directive to ensure the Administration protects the people they control by the enviro measures they enforce.

Down in OZ we love the things, can't get enough of them, no complaints.

If it saves power big time and means we don't have to go Nuclear....I'll buy a ton of them.
Ian.

[jhowelb]

Infantry11B, I bet B'OB would say ............

HW, his initials are B.O.!!

Look closely and you will realize that it is absolutely appropriate.

B.O. (stinky boy)

[handlewanker]

Aww JH, I don't even know the guy, only of him, and others as they cycle in and out of power derived from various political beliefs, but judging the guy without reason is not my forte, judging the likes of JFK is another matter, well documented and nothing to be proud of, and when you mention Tricky Dicky, you would blush if'n you suported the same party beliefs he stood for.

It is said that the only man to enter Parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes...LOL.

Anyone who can say that they admire the likes of Bill Clinton has my deepest sympathy, for you definately need to examine your outlook and what moral integrity means if you support someone like them who are a bit iffy.

This is one of the reasons the Climate Control (control?) variation is being so hotly debated, and the "solutions" to combat the effects that Humanoidal action has apparently had on the weather, but blaming it on the AGW aspect of the change is purely political and expedient.

The end result is those that are in power are either bound to perform their office that the party dictates, or rapidly lose the confidence of those that support them and so fall by the wayside never to use the key to the executive toilet again.

The people will always blame the man at the top, but the party machine is self regenerating, and though the faces change the policy remains the same.

I vote for the party of my preference that broadly reflects my point of view, no matter what face pops up at the window, the party line is always the main consideration.

I am quite surprised that in this time of crisis there are still those that are willing to perpetrate innacuracies in weather prediction instead of more important issues.

Looking at the radar, I would say to all those that believe in the coming worsening weather conditions, (ice age?), in the North, head South now while you still can find some land to settle on...300 million people will be a lot to rub shoulders with if you have to have an Exodus to the South.....but it's all b's isn't it, and the weather is going get warmer again and the garden will be rosy.
Ian.

[Boltz]

I think the real issue here is the competition between human beings for drinking water, and power plants for cooling water. If there is a viable closed cycle design I'd like to study it.

Legal prohibitions against nuclear power, however, are simply a formality, because free market capitalism has spoken loud and clear about the the merits of nuclear power by making financing completely unavailable. Without full taxpayer financing it's unlikely we'll see new nuke plants in our lifetime. Even if you pull the treehuggers out of the equation, it doesn't stand on it's own as a viable business proposition.

If coal miners (such as Massey) were compelled to actually do the things required to prevent fatal accidents, would coal stand on it's own as a business enterprise?

it depends on how you define "safety." if you define nuke safety as prohibiting any new facilities - well that is not safety you are doing, it is making your personal belief controlling over real safety.

[handlewanker]

I quite agree in principle that having clean water on tap is a fundamental aspect of what modern society is all about....3rd world society water definitions start with ground water supply and end with sewage disposal.....or what goes in must come out....LOL.

We take for granted that clean water comes out of a hole in the wall, and for that matter we also take for granted that power comes out of another hole in the wall, and so on.

During the war, 1938-45, I was evacuated to North Wales in the UK, and our water supply was from the village pump, ie, no running water on tap, and every morning I went with my grandmother to work the pump handle and carry the buckets of water back to the house.

Lighting was by candles or oil lamps, and the wireless was powered by glass cased accumulators that got charged up at the local shop for a few pennies.

Cooking was done on a coal stove......this was in 1942 or thereabouts, but making a time shift forward 65 years and it could be the 21 century with the amenities grinding to a halt due to lack of supply.

The solution to the problem of supply is a simple one, user pays, and if you can't pay you don't use it....other solutions just step in where others leave off.

A structured society that exists today relies on supply and production, commonly known as 1st World living, where the production is located in one area and supplies the producers who are grouped in another area.

There are no provisions for alternative living facilities in the cities and surrounding suburbs due to density of ground useage.

Interupt the water supply of a city for just 1 day and chaos reigns, for 1 week and people start to die, after 1 month the water supply system will be so contaminated that it would be practically unuseable ever again, and sewage accumulation will kill more than lack of drinking water will.

On his march across France to Calais, King henry 5th lost half his army to contaminated water sources.

More than 3/4 of the World's surface is water, and 90% of that is considered unfit to be drunk with only 10% useable after extreme filtration and chemically processing.

The River ganges is used for drinking, sewage disposal crop irrigation and for the disposal of partly burnt bodies, and is considered a "holy river" by the population, such are 3rd World standards.

By Western standards, 1 part per 100million of sewage contaminants renders water unfit to be drunk.

In the 20th Century no significent water storage facilities were made after the Hoover dam project was constructed, but the population explosion after 1945 reduced the water supply capability to half what it was by the 21st century, and the Colorado River is now considered a polluted water source, and can no longer support down stream irrigation for the growing population needs.

Without increased useable water supplies, the populations worldwide, will have more problems long before the need for increased or alternative power supplies, and without increased power supplies you cannot process, supply and dispose of the increased water consumption.
Ian.

[RomanLini]

Water, like energy, is not in a "shortage" it is simply a matter of management.

In the part of Australia where I live so much clean fresh water falls out of the sky that everyone's rain water tanks are permanently full, simply from the water that falls on the roof. Most people here have to constantly empty their tanks out to the garden to stop the overflow (or have the overflow connected to garden beds). There's plenty of clean water falling from the sky to supply the drinking water of many times the world's population, but we let most of it run straight down the rivers out into the oceans.

Then when a population grows a bit large in a particularly dry place with they all cry "there's not enough drinking water in the world".

There's enough energy falling from the sky to support a much larger world population, and there's enough water falling likewise. Greenies just need to MANAGE it better and whine less.

Did anyone see what Singapore is doing with their water issues? A massive 3 prong approach with recycled waste water plant, desalination plant, and damming their entire harbour to make it a fresh water resevior now and not salt water! Now that's management.

[dufas]

'No One Should Live Below A Certain Income Level,' U.N. Secretary-General Says | CNSnews.com

'No One Should Live Below A Certain Income Level,' U.N. Secretary-General Says
Monday, February 21, 2011

[fizzissist]

'No One Should Live Below A Certain Income Level,' U.N. Secretary-General Says
Monday, February 21, 2011

Sounds like a great New World Suggestion.

[handlewanker]

I get more info out of reading the posts that go with that UN article, even if'n some of them are a wee bit radical and off to the left.

I get a belly laugh when someone, anyone, states..."should not live below a certain income level".....wise words...... with 100% hind sight a school leaver automatically gravitates to a career job with retirement benefits that guarantee a pay off that exceeds his monthly salary ...every month till he snuffs it.

But then he wakes up and finds that he should have paid more attention in class to get better results so that he can get into college, get a degree and prepare to pay off some of his debts like house mortgage repayments, child care, health care, new car, new TV, swimming pool etc etc...instead he now gravitates to the bottom of the ladder, the glorious working class, without whom nothing in industry or manufacture will get made, and accepts a lower wage 'cos that's all deserves.

Winston Churchill stated, "If you over pay the working class, you will end up with no working class".....or too many Chiefs and not enough Indians...LOL.

I quite agree with the concept of having free medical aid and other social benefits like unemployment benefits, (when you are between jobs), for those that need it, and also child allowance for the first two children, then you should have to start paying back when the third child arrives etc....If you can't afford to support children don't have them.

A society that is well balanced and prosperous can afford to support it's citizens across a broad spectrum of social programs as a moral obligation.

If'n you are required to pay 30% of your wages in taxation, then it's the Government's prerogative how that money is spent, and social reforms that benefit the people are a sign of a good government system.

The message is, go out and work for a living, pay your 30% or so, and live on your 70% you've earned....nothing more is expected of you.

If you are so stupid and greedy that you must expand your spending capacity by way of a credit card, then more fool you.....every dollar you spend on the card is worth 20% less by way of credit card charges.....how stupid can you get?

This is tantamount to your boss saying "I'm going to pay you 20% less this month because I need it more than you do".....nice boss?....but you beg your bank manager for a credit card extension without so much as a whimper.

I don't agree to sending money to a 3rd World economy, that ought to be spent at home on improvements to the social system for the people,

It is too much of a long shot to expect, sometime in the dim and distant future, some of that money coming back as a dividend, and there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

BTW, in case anyone misinterprets my previous post as being a bit Socialistically inclined, it might well have been from experience.

I worked continuously for 55 years of my life, starting out with my first earnings at age 16, and in all that time I only drew unemployment benefit for two weeks when I relocated to OZ and looked for a job.

Pure luck? ....Being employed continuously, over 20 different jobs, over three countries, sole wage earner with a wife and two children to provide for....maybe so, but I planned my life around the aquisition of qualifications from day 1 to ensure the capability to work in order to earn money.

Preplanning is THE most important step in any enterprise.

I can honestly say that of all the tax I paid, probably some went to support immigrant arrivals in the countries I worked in, but that's just a part of living.
Ian.

[Boltz]

Can you explain what "new world" is code for?

Sounds like a great New World Suggestion.

[fizzissist]

First, it's a suggestion. Then, it's an order.

[Boltz]

Roman, what you're describing sounds a lot like something we used to have here in the US. I believe we called it "yankee ingenuity". It was centered around the quaint notion that engineering could be applied to increase efficiencies throughout the economy for the common good.

"Common Good". Can anybody say that without a sneer anymore? There was a guy a couple thousand years ago who talked about that. He was very popular with the people, but ultimately the oligarchs of the time gave him a ride on a lumber lounger.

Fox "news" would have us believe that if we shut down the big dirty coal fired power plants we'll be destined to live in cold damp caves lit by tallow candles for the indefinite future. A hundred years ago these people would have been the ones deriding the ideas of Edison and Tesla as wildly impractical, or possibly of some value in a hundred years. Flush toilets are an interesting new technology, but they'll never replace chamber pots.

Water, like energy, is not in a "shortage" it is simply a matter of management.

In the part of Australia where I live so much clean fresh water falls out of the sky that everyone's rain water tanks are permanently full, simply from the water that falls on the roof. Most people here have to constantly empty their tanks out to the garden to stop the overflow (or have the overflow connected to garden beds). There's plenty of clean water falling from the sky to supply the drinking water of many times the world's population, but we let most of it run straight down the rivers out into the oceans.

Then when a population grows a bit large in a particularly dry place with they all cry "there's not enough drinking water in the world".

There's enough energy falling from the sky to support a much larger world population, and there's enough water falling likewise. Greenies just need to MANAGE it better and whine less.

Did anyone see what Singapore is doing with their water issues? A massive 3 prong approach with recycled waste water plant, desalination plant, and damming their entire harbour to make it a fresh water resevior now and not salt water! Now that's management.

[Boltz]

First, it's a suggestion. Then, it's an order.

As in "A New World Order?" Or perhaps "Novus Ordo Seclorum?"

[fizzissist]

Fox "news" would have us believe that if we shut down the big dirty coal fired power plants we'll be destined to live in cold damp caves lit by tallow candles for the indefinite future. .

And CBS "news" would have you believe that if we shut down the big dirty coal fired power plants and built pretty windmills and lovely fields of solar panels we can all hold hands and sing "I'd Like to Buy the World a Coke".

If you only read Fox "news", you're an idiot.
If you only read CBS "news", you're an idiot.

...And NO. I do not mean "Novus Ordo Seclorum", as it was intended by Charles Thomson, if you're referencing the motto on our money.

"The date underneath is that of the Declaration of Independence and the words under it signify the beginning of the new American Era, which commences from that date."

[RomanLini]

Speaking of "new Era" the Australian foreign minister is on TV now giving a big speech about what is now a classed as a "new social movement" in the middle east.

It's started. Once the people realise they never again have to be oppressed by a Government it will spread like wildfire. And I think the only way governments can survive uncrumbled will be to quickly embrace the wishes of the people. That includes all governments, even those of many western countires that may not realise how oppressive they are.

I'm predicting some civil movements from social groups that have never been happy with their oppression of recent years, "white rights" movements and other fringe groups that make up a small by significant percentage of the populace.

It's gonna be an interesting time over the next 10 years, a time when the information age truly takes hold and the governments finally have to knuckle under and actually start doing what they always should have done... Obey their masters.

To Boltz- My comment on the water had nothing to do with the "common good" or any other whacko commie concept, it ws an engineering comment. That there is plenty of water. I wasn't suggesting any method of managemnt, just that the resource is there and can be managed.

[dynosor]

a time when ... governments finally have to knuckle under and actually start doing what they always should have done... Obey their masters.

Or alternatively, they can declare martial law and crush anybody who opposes them with overwhelming force. :drowning:

[handlewanker]

You say "They"....their heads can fit nicely on the block too if'n "they" upset the people too much.

Once the horse (camel?) gets the bit between his teeth it's all systems go.

Seems like the Middle East is finally waking up to the mess their leaders have been "leading" them into.....I'm waiting with bated breath to see how the Saudis come out on this one.

On the 'net this morning, Gdafi of Libya has pledged to hang himself before giving into the mob, er..... his people, preferring martyrdom instead of being hung by the goolies from a barbed wire fence and used for target practice by his disgruntled brethren.
I would like to supply some rope for free and a nice high tree to tie it to.

Incidently, if'n Gdafi thinks he's gonna qualify for martydom, better warn the US to watch out for a gent wearing a suspiciously large and smelly jacket bristling with Camel fleas, but I don't think martydom is on the menu, one of the Mullahs reminded him that you have to actualy go into orbit once the fuse is lit...LOL.....oh yes, and you have to take a few others with you for company.

Hey, a thought just occured to me...is this the New World Order happening in our time?

The Middle East does rule the present World with their oil reserves, and a change in their idiocy could be interpreted as New World Order.

Maybe the Mayas are right, the Old World Order is about to come to a sticky end for some, and next year is 2012 which is what the M's are predicting, so we can heave a sigh of relief and forget about Global Warming/Cooling, AGW problems, wrong direction all the time.
Ian.