[Letomoto]

Hello group ! i am building a Laser cutter and i salvaged 4 servos and drivers from another machine .

Faulhaber Brushless DC-Servomotor Series 3564 B
Faulhaber Motion Controller Series MCBL 3006 C , is CANbus , needs a CAN interface

I am trying to use Faulhaber Motion Manager 6 and i technically would need a CANbus interface to connect the driver to my PC and be able to edit the settings who are written in the driver. I would need to go set it up to "Stepper Mode" to be able to use them with my control motherboard from a 3D printer. These control boards are using Dir and Step signals to drive the steppers and the Servo Faulhaber wouldnt use these signals if not set to "stepper mode" . I have read in the instructions of Motion Manager and it says CAN Supported Interfaces: HMS-IXXAT, Peak, ESD, EMS

Started to look for these CAN interfaces brands and they are a pretty hefty price and all i want to do is setup the "stepper mode" on them , would cost me from 200$usd to 1000$usd and i do not run a company and would need to control 3000 nodes and machines and make money all the time.... i am a hobbyist...

Anyone would have tried Faulhaber and have an idea ? Would super cheap CAN-USB interfaces could work or the Arduino CANShield could be connected to the computer and act as a serial port?

Or , is there any cheap Servo drivers who could be used by 3D printer motherboards ? or maybe a device that can be installed between the motherboard and the CANbus Servo drivers to transform the DIR STEP signal to a CANbus signal? I would prefer using a 3D printer motherboard because most of the softwares ive seen are getting connected like 3D printers and i wouldnt like to use only Mach3 . Also able to setup lots of scripts/options in the firmware of the motherboards to setup the CO2 Laser machine more safely.

I know it sounds quite alot more complicated than just getting steppers for my machine but i salvaged an electronic boards testing cnc machine for pennies with good quality components and i would prefer using his guts !












Thanks

[Letomoto]

Hello group , i finally received a supported USB CANopen interface and it seems like it is sending and receiving CAN data when the Motion Manager 6 is searching for nodes but it finds nothing... The CAN interface seems to be trying and is supported and seen by the software. I also tried Motion Manager 5 because the version of the MCBL i have is a bit old and it doesnt getting found , the support guy from Faulhaber told me the specific "C" version was old yes but should connect using CAN interface only , not a RS232 communication , that is why i ordered an interface and took a full month to receive it ... kinda slowing the project !!


exactly MCBL 3006 C 3085 motion controller model number ...

anyone ever ran into issues like this ? or even used Faulhaber products ?

[Iron-Man]

Hello group , i finally received a supported USB CANopen interface and it seems like it is sending and receiving CAN data when the Motion Manager 6 is searching for nodes but it finds nothing... The CAN interface seems to be trying and is supported and seen by the software. I also tried Motion Manager 5 because the version of the MCBL i have is a bit old and it doesnt getting found , the support guy from Faulhaber told me the specific "C" version was old yes but should connect using CAN interface only , not a RS232 communication , that is why i ordered an interface and took a full month to receive it ... kinda slowing the project !!


exactly MCBL 3006 C 3085 motion controller model number ...

anyone ever ran into issues like this ? or even used Faulhaber products ?

Do you have the proper termination resistors set at the end points? They should be 120 ohms.

Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

Do you have the proper termination resistors set at the end points? They should be 120 ohms.

Iron-Man

i tried with one resistor on the H and L pins but it doesnt find it and the CAN interface i am not able to send random stuff and receive when the resistor is there.


when there is no resistor i can send/receive strings using the CAN interface software, the Motion Manager software do not recognise the MCBL ... pretty annoying ... i am getting some help from the Faulhaber support but it takes forever to have email replies and now the guy who was helping my case left for vacation ...

[Iron-Man]

[QUOTE=Letomoto;2359610]i tried with one resistor on the H and L pins but it doesnt find it and the CAN interface i am not able to send random stuff and receive when the resistor is there.


when there is no resistor i can send/receive strings using the CAN interface software, the Motion Manager software do not recognise the MCBL ... pretty annoying ... i am getting some help from the Faulhaber support but it takes forever to have email replies and now the guy who was helping my case left for vacation ...


Have you tried changing the baud rates? See below.

3.6 Baud rate and node number / node ID
NOTE The baud rate and node number necessary for the communication link are set via the Motion Manager or as a direct command input. Please read the relevant function and communication manual and the Motion Manager's instruction manual.

CAN
The CAN wiring is established via the connections CAN-H, CAN-L and the supply GND; alternatively,
the installed D-sub connector can be used (not available for all variants).

Pin header/Terminal strip	D-Sub connector	Designation	Meaning
Pin 7	3	GND	GND
Pin 2	2	CAN_L	CAN Low
Pin 1	7	CAN_H	CAN High

Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

i tried putting the CAN ground to pin7 GND and when MotionManager is searching for a node the CAN LED on the interface does not flash . i put it back to Pin3 AGND and the searching makes the CAN LED blinking .



if i change the baudrate of the CAN it only blinks the CAN LED on the interface when on 1000kbit/s



The node number i dont have a clue what it is and the search should find everything who is on the CAN network and show them with their numbers and infos?

[Letomoto]

i am now looking at something i didnt checked yet , Terminal communication log . what means this line? is it seeing a driver but it is not configured so it is not known as a Node so cant access it?

[Iron-Man]

It is possible, the slave is probably a servo drive. Your main controller should be the master and the attached servos would be slaves. Go back to the basics. Try to set up your controller with just one servo. Some devices contain terminating resistors built in or require dip switch changes to set the proper termination.. I downloaded version 4. It appears that the software looks for these CAN BUS controllers; IXXAT-VCI3, VCI2, or ESD. A picture of your set-up may help identify problems. Also, any wiring on the CAN BUS has to be twisted pairs.

Do you have the manuals for the servo drive set-up with Motion Manager?


Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

Yes i have all the manuals from their website and it is so god damn supposed to be simple , plug and push the establish connection button .... i havent seen the Motion Manager Version 4

Here is the whole circuit . the CAN_H-L on controller pins 1-2 have the resistor on them and when i try things i test with or without .

the CAN_H-L grounds from the ESD are connected to Pin3 AGND on the controller

24V supply to the input pins 6-7

motor is fully connected

[Iron-Man]

Have you downloaded the CAN OPEN communication manual?
The document contains the commands to issue in order to commission the drive.
I cannot tell from your wiring, but there appears to be no common ground.

2.4.1 Activate CANopen nodes ? Use the Start Remote Node broadcast command with CAN ID 0 to start either an individual node or the whole network and to set it to the Operational state. The first data byte contains the start command Start Remote Node, the second data byte contains the node address or 0 for the whole network. All functions can be proceeded after the node has been started. The drive can now be activated and operated using the device control functions according to CiA DSP402. The identifiers of the individual objects are preset according to the Predefined Connection Set and depend on the node number.

Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

All ive read from manuals of Faulhaber is pretty much just connect , click establish connection , would find everything and then lots of things to do with the found devices .....

If a node is not alive on a system it could be the reason it is not getting found ?

Thanks alot for the help , i was getting pretty damn lost !

I went back on their website and i opened the CANopen CIA and found your 2.4.1 section , will go thru this and come back

This is my connections up closer
obviously Yellow 24V , black GND from the psu
the cut wires on pin1-2 were just from the main harness of the CNC machine , just using the resistor , the CAN_H-L wires going to the interface

[Letomoto]

well , started to try the commands in the terminal and something is not working ... no answer
it is my first time touching CAN so its not so easy hah! i feel like such a noob...






i also used the CAN interface CANtest software to see whats up , what is a Baudrate 7ffffffff and what this error means ?

Net 100: Opening device returned with error NTCAN_SOCK_CONN_TIMEOUT - I/O operation not completed because of socket I/O timeout

[Letomoto]

fun fun fun , trying to send commands but nothing that tells me if received or not , am i throwing this to anything who is on the CAN bus or i absolutely need the adress of the receiver?

[Letomoto]

with Manager 5 i been able to see that it would let me put in the motion controller number to search it for a non-configured , i did , but it is not finding anything , Unconfigured slaves : 0

trying to dig thru manuals to troubleshoot and it is such a pain , its an unknown universe for me..... When i use the CAN interface software i can start the bus connection but when i send a numerical hex code it doesnt appears to be received and the Bus state changes to Passive after the first command sent. Tried a bunch of the commands codes for start , stop , reset , mod etc



I am now thinking the ESD CAN interface might be not set properly ? and i do not have a clue how to work this out , i am on the edge of getting out of my mind and throw myself in front of a bus , i am fighting with this since the beginning of the year !!

[Iron-Man]

Ok lets try this.

First send me the model number of your ESD CAN BUS Controller, the picture disappeared?
There is CAN A 11bits and CAN B 29 bits. Make sure that this is correctly set for send and receive.
Second, disconnect the CAN signals. How many channels do you have on your CAN BUS interface? If you have 2, then you can do a loop back test to check data sent is received.

Third, Take two wires, small gauge and separate them by 1/2 inch. Trim the ends of both wires. Solder 120 Ohm resistors at the end points.
Make two twisted wire pairs. Connect both sets inside of the resistors. Your finished set up should look like the image I provided earlier.
Make sure to observe, CANH / CANL connections.

Fourth, This may seem as a waste of time but we want to make sure that the physical bus is connected correctly.

Fifth, try another servo drive to rule out the possibility of a faulty drive.

Sixth, I believe that you will need CASE ground, ie your power supply - servo drive etc. CAN is very robust, but has to be correctly connected.

When CAN is functioning properly it will have a time stamp for the message and the data that was sent.

When you get it working, this document, will show you how to set up in 3.4.1 Stepper motor mode Controller structure in stepper motor mod.


Communication/ Function Manual CANopen FAULHABER
These instructions may help:
If the FAULHABER Motion Manager is to be used as the configuration tool, proceed as follows:
The following steps are necessary for commissioning using the default configuration:
1. Connect the drive unit to a voltage source (24V). For details of connection cable assignment and
the operating voltage range of the drive, see Chapter 3 “Installation” in the technical manual.
2. Connect drive unit to the CAN interface of the PC and switch on or connect PC to the CAN network.
3. Start FAULHABER Motion Manager.
4. Activate CAN interface as communication interface and configure using the menu item “Terminal
– Connections…” or the Connection Wizard.
5. Select menu item “CAN - LSS (DSP305)…”.
6. Select Configuration mode:
a. Globally configure individual drive (LSS Switch Mode Global) if only one LSS node is connected
and you do not want to enter any further data.
b. Selectively configure specified nodes (LSS Switch Mode Selective) if a node is to be configured
in the network. If the node has not yet been found in the Node Explorer, enter the serial number of the drive node to be configured here, otherwise the data fields are already correctly
preset.
7. In the next dialog, select the required transfer rate or “Auto” and enter the required node number.
8. Press “Send” button.
9. The settings are transferred and are permanently stored in the controller. The Motion Manager
then calls up the Scan function again and the node should now be displayed with the correct
node number in the Node Explorer. After switching off and on again, the drive will operate with
the set configuration.


Keep at it, don't give up.

Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

Woah that is a very good participation to help me go thru this !

Here is the exact ESD CAN interface i am using CAN-USB-Mini: Interface for USB 1.1, MB90F543 microcontroller

http://www.esd-electronics-usa.com/s...i_Hardware.pdf

This is the info of the installed ESD CAN interface




There is CAN A 11bits and CAN B 29 bits. Make sure that this is correctly set for send and receive .

I can see a checkbox for 29bit and RTR in the CANreal software , i havent seen A or B or 11bits , i dont know what to do for this yet...


How many channels do you have on your CAN BUS interface? If you have 2, then you can do a loop back test to check data sent is received.

there is only one DB9 connector on the interface


Third, Take two wires, small gauge and separate them by 1/2 inch. Trim the ends of both wires. Solder 120 Ohm resistors at the end points.
Make two twisted wire pairs. Connect both sets inside of the resistors. Your finished set up should look like the image I provided earlier.
Make sure to observe, CANH / CANL connections.

i have only one driver connected directly to the CAN interface . i use a 120ohm resistor directly connected to the CAN_H and L pins on the driver . i can understand what it does on a line of a few devices but there is just a single driver , is the CAN interface considered as another device and being a network of just 2 devices? should i put two parralel resistors in between H and L pins? the driver and the CAN interface are just in the face of eachother there is a single straight wire connecting CAN_H to CAN_H. They need to be twisted pairs to not absorb interferences and keep a clean signal ? but nothing is running and there is 2 inches lenght of wiring...

would need to do like this drawing or no resistors?




Fifth, try another servo drive to rule out the possibility of a faulty drive

i already tried two servo drives , the same model and no difference in the trials

Sixth, I believe that you will need CASE ground, ie your power supply - servo drive etc. CAN is very robust, but has to be correctly connected

i added a wire to ground the driver body to the psu ground and it doesnt change

[Letomoto]

When you get it working, this document, will show you how to set up in 3.4.1 Stepper motor mode Controller structure in stepper motor mod.


i did this completely before but i tried again now and nothing is found .... no connection

[Iron-Man]

Hello Letomoto

Your problem has to be in the physical CAN layer. Disconnect the CAN interface and redo it like I suggested. Please see attached image.
In addition, follow chapter 5 of the ESD CAN manual. Now, go to chapter 6 and check the voltages. Follow instructions to correct the physical layer.

Iron-Man

[Letomoto]

this way ?

[Letomoto]

this way ? and yes i have the grounds connected now and tried connection







not working yet ...