[rpseguin]

Do not do as rpseguin has said to change the wires around the drives
will not like it may be even smoke alittle

The wiring must be as the specification U / V / W / G G is Ground Drive

A / B / C / D D is Ground Motor
1 / 2 / 3 /4 4 is Ground Motor


The motor cables are also sometimes marked the same as the drives
so there should be no mistakes in wiring them up

Reversing the phase wiring on a 3 phase motor will not produce smoke on the drive or on the motor. That is how 3 phase motors reverse direction.
The phases are labelled on the drive, but color coded on the Yaskawa cables, as indicated in their documentation. Virtually all of the phase signals are generated on the fly inside the drive anyhow (which is why parameter adjustment would work). Servo drives are just glorified VFDs in that sense.

And rpseguin the Drive will not Fault out Because the drive can run
the motor anyway you want it to just another Parameter ajustment
you should know this or are you just good at giving bad advise

Let him try it on his drives first

I did say that I agree that the parameter adjustment is probably the best way to go, and failing everything else, simply reverse two of the phase wires. BTW- I _HAVE_ done this and it does not produce smoke.

[rpseguin]

We went though this last year in another post so you have not moved
to far on your project here it is again

Yep. Not much progress. It's called having twins and a 3 year old and a high maintenance wife.

Position Control this type of control moves the load from one known FIXED
POSITION ! (STOP) to another known FIXED POSITION ! (STOP) You Could
drill holes this way

Velocity / Speed Control moves the load CONTINUOUSLY for a certain time
interval or moves the load from one place to another at a precribed
Velocity / Speed ( SMOOTH & FAST ) ( The answer lies here
CONTINUOUSLY )

Torque Control measures the current applied to a motor with a known torque coefficient in order to develop a known constant torque
Used more for spindles than X / Y / Z motion

Your mouse you use on your computer is Position Control
Injection molding machine use Position Control
and many other machines and robots etc
No modern CNC machines Lathes / Mills use Position Control or Step / Dir to
control the motion

I understand what you are saying. I thought the position drives gave a proportional response in order to drive to the target position. Ie, if the following/position error is too large, it does a PID response to try to drive to the target.

In any case, I'm happy to get some of the Skyko P100 step/dir to +/-10V converters, as I have access to more of the SGDA speed/torque control drives than SGDH drives.

Most good mills all have Digital Drives today mine do with fiber-optic cables
to the control I build them like this myself

The Yaskawa Drives SGDH which you have or talked about & Legend SGDG Servo Amplifiers have all-Digital Architecture with 32-Bit control and have
been around for about 10 years or more

And the answer to your question Velocity / Speed verses Position
Try and do 3 or 4 axes in Synchronous operation or 3 axes Interpolation
in Postion Control it will not be easy to achieve or very smooth

Velocity / Speed Control is Plug & Play one machine I built 4 axes only had
( 2 ) Parameters to change in the SGDH Yaskawa Drives and that was for Velocity / Speed Control & AutoTune we have run it like this for 5 years with no change

Cool.
Well, thanks for your responses and info.

At $69 each, the Skyko step/dir to +/-10V converters seem like a really good deal if I can use these drives.
Now to just convince the wife to actually buy some stuff.

Thanks again!
-Ralph

[Mike Nash]

Hi Mike Nash

It's just a parameter change to make the motor go the right way that
you want it to, The drive would not run the motor at all if there was a
problem with the drive probably just some parameter changes try to
match the motors to the drive this is important

That would be nice, but since I loaded the same file into all of the drives, I don't think so. I double checked the parmaters also.

[mactec54]

Hi rpseguin & Mike Nash

Most people know that are in to machines or 3phase motors know that
you can swap the wires around to reverse the motor rotation

But Yaskawa does not recommend to do this it is in there Manual
if your wires do not have labels on them they are as follows

Black--is--W or some are Blue--is--W
Red --is--U
White--is--V
Green--is--G (Ground )

Wire it this way and you will be good to go

Also a good supply for sheilded cable Which you should use (if you make your own) is

IGUS Ph 401 438 2200
You can buy it by the foot and very good prices
and the cable they sell is high quality

I hope this now helps you head in the right direction

[Mike Nash]

Yeah, I already knew not to swap the wires on the Yaskawa servos. Found that one out quite a few years ago.

It would seem there wasn't actually a problem with my drive. After I took the covers off this one and one that worked, I swapped the control boards and the problem went with the board. The "bad" board was a revision 1 vs rev 4 for the other. Turns out I didn't have enough voltage on my pulse reference for this one drive. All the others were ok with it. Upped the voltage and it was fine.

[YEATech]

I think this answer is right.
Failing all of that, just switch two of the motor wires to reverse the phases/direction... It is a 3 phase motor, after all.
What I don't understand is why it wouldn't immediately fault out if the drive sees the encoder going in the wrong direction...

-Ralph

Unfortuntely you cannot switch the motor phases to reverse the direction.

YEATech

[bbrreid]

Hi will this help

https://partner.yaskawa.com/site/dmd....html?readform

Brian

[mactec54]

Hi bbreid

It is always good to have more places to find information Yaskawa
is one of the best for putting out there information but not always
is it easy to find everything you need to, as they have a lot of different
sites

[tivoidethuong]

I hope all your motors match your drives!

Mouser has all of the connectors for the SGDA. I don't have the SGDH so I haven't looked into what's needed for them. I skipped on the shells (covers) for the 3M connectors since they cost as much as the connectors. The TYCO motor connectors are going to need an open barrel crimp tool also.

The CW and CCW can alternately be the Step and Direction signals based on how the drive is programmed. If you already have your motors you'll know whether you need 4 or 6 pin connectors for them. If you have brakes on the motors (they'll have 6 wires) you'll also need a power supply to release them. These are typically 90V for the SGD, SGDA.

If anyone has the older SGD drives, the older SVMON software available here ftp://ftp.yaskawa.de/Public/Software...otion&Control/ supports them also. The newer versions dropped support for the SGD. You can also get SigmaWin Lite here http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo....GMAWINLITE.ZIP

Be warned that building your own cables is going to get spendy too. Have you checked the price on multiconductor shielded cable lately?

I don't have my notes on hookups handy, they're at home. They may not apply to what you want to do anyway. You can turn off most of the limits, etc. to minimize wiring if you are going to do overtravel limits at the computer. You can also jog the drive with the SVMON software, but be aware it JUMPS to speed!

As far as breakout boards, I don't plan to use anything buffered.

One last note. The Gear 1, Gear 2 parameters will be very helpful in getting the step rate requirements to reasonable levels since the servo is expecting 8192 pulses from the computer per revolution of the motor if yours has 2048 PPR (line) encoders as most incrementals have on these.

to Mike Nash
are you have pc to servo cable for SGD xxxS schecmatic? thanks for your info

[Mike Nash]

http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo....-S800-15.5.pdf

Page 14

And you're welcome!

[tivoidethuong]

thanks Mike, i was comelete the cable, it's work well

[Eddiep]

I'm also squirling around with some old SGDH drives, and am trying to find the encoder cable connector that plugs into the drive. On the first page of this thread someone mentioned that it's some variant of a common USB connector, but I don't think I've seen it before - is it something that I could pick up at Fry's or some other electronics store? Anyone have a part number? Thanks!

Edward

[doanwannapickle]

Hi All,

I've learned as much from this old thread as I have from reams of Yaskawa documentation so I hope the original posters are still lurking about.

I would like to use AC servo motors to drive my spindle. It's a Taig and the controller is Mach.

Here's what I've got:
A pair of SGM-01A312 motors.
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/Yas/YasMotors.jpg

A SGD-02BH-PY5 Servodrive.
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/Yas/YasDrive.jpg

Question 1: Should I get a JUSP-OP03A Digital Operator?
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/Yas/YasOperator.jpg

It looks like it would be a good addition for setting things up. I downloaded the dos software for setting it up but I have no cable. Would the Operator eliminate the need for the cable and dos software?

The bottom line question is: What is the best and/or easiest way to get this pile of parts to make my spindle go round?

Cheers,
Walt

[Mike Nash]

:nono: I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I have a lot of them for you.

First, the motors are 200V and the drive is 100V.

Second, the motor needs to match the drive in wattage and you have a 200W drive and 100W motors. So right off the bat this combo is not going to work.

Third, the drive is a position reference pulse/serial communications type. This means it wants a position to go to either via serial command or it will follow pulse inputs from the terminals. BUT, it only follows a quadrature reference, not step and direction. Mach II/III looks as if it can output the required signals in MaxNC/10 mode, but I won't swear to it as it's not documented in the manual.

Are you trying to control spindle position or just speed?

If speed, find a SGD-01AS drive to run one of your motors, but be aware it needs around 200-240VAC for a supply.

If position, you'll need a SGM-02Bxxx motor. Be aware if there's a B or D after the 3 xxx's (which can be 312 etc.) you'll have a brake you'll need to power up to release the motor.

As far as the OP-03A, that's your choice. It will make programming easier since you won't need to make a cable.

And be sure 100W or even 200W is adequate for your needs. One HP is 746W so 100/746 is about 1/8 HP and 200W is a little better than 1/4 HP. Also, these motors are rated to 3000 RPM at full torque. They will go to 4500 RPM but the torque drops as the speed increases above 3000 RPM.

One last note: the SGDA can be used instead of the SGD with the SGM motors. It plays very nicely with the software. Don't get an SGDH unless you want to find a newer series motor.

I hope I haven't ruined your day Walt!

[blackbeard52]

I have a Yaskawa complete 4 axis control box without servo motors. it has 3) sgda08as drivers and 1 sgda04as driver, power supply, controller card, motherboard, and motor and encoder cables.....Anyone interested? I want to use steppers for my build and need different controllers...PM me


Bob

[jasonmbeamer]

Ok Now I´m really confused. I already bought a D-Tran robot with the three matching SGDA-xxxP drives. I am wanting to use mach3 with step and direction. In this quote (down below) it sounds like it will be about worthless, But in another forum about mach3 they made it out to sound like the Position was the only way to go. Did i make a mistake or is this the right way to go for step and direction inputs ?

Hi rpseguin

We went though this last year in another post so you have not moved
to far on your project here it is again

Position Control this type of control moves the load from one known FIXED
POSITION ! (STOP) to another known FIXED POSITION ! (STOP) You Could
drill holes this way

Velocity / Speed Control moves the load CONTINUOUSLY for a certain time
interval or moves the load from one place to another at a precribed
Velocity / Speed ( SMOOTH & FAST ) ( The answer lies here
CONTINUOUSLY )

Torque Control measures the current applied to a motor with a known torque coefficient in order to develop a known constant torque
Used more for spindles than X / Y / Z motion

Your mouse you use on your computer is Position Control
Injection molding machine use Position Control
and many other machines and robots etc
No modern CNC machines Lathes / Mills use Position Control or Step / Dir to
control the motion

Most good mills all have Digital Drives today mine do with fiber-optic cables
to the control I build them like this myself

The Yaskawa Drives SGDH which you have or talked about & Legend SGDG Servo Amplifiers have all-Digital Architecture with 32-Bit control and have
been around for about 10 years or more

And the answer to your question Velocity / Speed verses Position
Try and do 3 or 4 axes in Synchronous operation or 3 axes Interpolation
in Postion Control it will not be easy to achieve or very smooth


Velocity / Speed Control is Plug & Play one machine I built 4 axes only had
( 2 ) Parameters to change in the SGDH Yaskawa Drives and that was for Velocity / Speed Control & AutoTune we have run it like this for 5 years with no change
__________________
Mactec54

[Mike Nash]

I still say it will work. I haven't yet finished my mill conversion however, so I haven't tested it any further than feeding in a pulse train on the step input on the bench. If set up properly, the motors will jump off the table trying to follow that pulse train. If set up at factory defaults it's fairly sluggish and will have a huge following error. There were also H type drives (as opposed to S or P) that took position setpoints serially as in communications, and I would not expect those to work well in a CNC app.

I would expect a robot had better be following commands pretty closely to be useful for something like welding, spray painting, applying sealers, etc. Since yours came with step/direction servos, what do you think?

[jasonmbeamer]

Thanks Mike

Position Control this type of control moves the load from one known FIXED POSITION ! (STOP) to another known FIXED POSITION ! (STOP) You Could drill holes this way

It dosen´t make much sense becuase in a sense that is exactly what stepper motors do. move one step (STOP) move another step (STOP). the only reason they are a bit jerky is the fact they only have 200 steps a rev. but these Ac servos are 8 thousand and some change (becuase of the encoders).

The D-Tran robot has Yaskawa Ac servos. But everywhere I have looked they show a rectangle conector on the motor for the encoder. these are not the same. here are the motor numbers of two of them. SGM-01A3S011 AND SGM-08A3S011. these are single row conectors, not the double row as in all the manuals.

I will be wiring the cables myself so the actual conector isn´t important. but the pinouts are. dose anyone have a diagram or more info on the actual encoders. or better yet the pinouts for these connectors. any info would be greatly apriciated, thanks

[mactec54]

Hi jasonbemer

The motors you have SGM series are quite old sigma series ($40 to $100 Max) I think the encoders are there standard encoder which is 2048 I will try & find some information on them but the last numbers are custom I think these have been custom made for the robot because the last numbers are not the norm are these motors painted black red or just aluminium

[jasonmbeamer]

They are all black. I just checked out Mechatronics Wiki, "Using the Yaskawa Motors" and all the wires for the encoders have the exact same colored wires for the standard encoder conecter. I think I would be willing to gamble on this alone that it would more than likely be the same hookup, just different conectors.